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charleswaz
# of wires in wall space between studs

Ok so running PVC conduit is out of the question for vertical runs through my 1923 ballon framed house.

But now the issue is when I go to "re-organize" my electric (pretty much everything is on two circuits) can I place 7 #12/2 runs into the 16" on center, wall cavity between studs with space in between the individual wires?

This will allow me the flexibility to set up j boxes in the attic and simply drop lines down from the unfinished attic into the seperate rooms which will now be on individual circuits.

NEC
Re: # of wires in wall space between studs

Bundle two cables though a hole and fire stop……. You will be good.

Ernie_Fergler
Re: # of wires in wall space between studs
charleswaz wrote:

Ok so running PVC conduit is out of the question for vertical runs through my 1923 ballon framed house.

But now the issue is when I go to "re-organize" my electric (pretty much everything is on two circuits) can I place 7 #12/2 runs into the 16" on center, wall cavity between studs with space in between the individual wires?

This will allow me the flexibility to set up j boxes in the attic and simply drop lines down from the unfinished attic into the seperate rooms which will now be on individual circuits.

3M makes a Romex product called a "Stacker".
It is a plastic device with say a 12p nail that allows you to stack Romex in it and nail the said product to a stud. You must have access the the wall cavity to do so, of course.
I would thing other have a similar product on the market.

Re: # of wires in wall space between studs

You may get differnt answers here because I dont think we are all visualizing the same thing. If your drilling a hole for the wires to go through then 2 wires and fire caulk is good, if I recall from another thread your walls are NOT open, and meaning your "old working" them so stackers may not be much help there but still usefull in the basement and attic. Generally speaking if its baloon framed, and your not pushing them through a hole try to keep some seperation 4 or 5 to a hand full maybe 1 handfull on each side of the bay, then fill the opening of the bottom of the bay with rotten cotten (probably a moot point but..)

dont follow the urge to use 3 wire

as an extra challenge too try to use as few j boxes as possable go right to the first box then make your splices there, it makes for fewer splices and a neater job (less troubleshooting later if it doesnt work right)

charleswaz
Re: # of wires in wall space between studs

This forum is a whole heck of a lot more helpful from the guy on payroll at the Depot.

After an hours work and 5 boxes of debris i have access to the wall in the basement, floor to ceiling on the second floor and the attic. So my thought is to fish the wires up through the first floor(no access), half to the left and half to the right and install stackers all the way along the height of the second floor.

eventually all the plaster and lathe will come down and insulation and drywall will go up. im paying my mortagage in oil heat come the winter time.

??with the stackers in place and 4 wires on both studs of the wall cavity can i then just place some fiberglass roll insulation in the cavity??

obviously i am an over thinker... thank you

Ernie_Fergler
Re: # of wires in wall space between studs
charleswaz wrote:

This forum is a whole heck of a lot more helpful from the guy on payroll at the Depot.

After an hours work and 5 boxes of debris i have access to the wall in the basement, floor to ceiling on the second floor and the attic. So my thought is to fish the wires up through the first floor(no access), half to the left and half to the right and install stackers all the way along the height of the second floor.

eventually all the plaster and lathe will come down and insulation and drywall will go up. im paying my mortagage in oil heat come the winter time.

??with the stackers in place and 4 wires on both studs of the wall cavity can i then just place some fiberglass roll insulation in the cavity??

obviously i am an over thinker... thank you

Yes you can use fiberglass insulation in that wall cavity.
Have you thought about pulling an extra run while the wall is open? Just wondering aloud here.:D
As Lloyd posted, do not pull one 12/3 in place of two runs of 12/2. That was quite common in its day. But when installing AFCI breakers you can not share the neutral, so 12/3 would create headaches.....
And nothing wrong with over thinking a problem, either.

Gray Watson
Re: # of wires in wall space between studs
charleswaz wrote:

Ok so running PVC conduit is out of the question for vertical runs through my 1923 ballon framed house.

But now the issue is when I go to "re-organize" my electric (pretty much everything is on two circuits) can I place 7 #12/2 runs into the 16" on center, wall cavity between studs with space in between the individual wires?

This will allow me the flexibility to set up j boxes in the attic and simply drop lines down from the unfinished attic into the seperate rooms which will now be on individual circuits.

charleswaz wrote:

This forum is a whole heck of a lot more helpful from the guy on payroll at the Depot.

After an hours work and 5 boxes of debris i have access to the wall in the basement, floor to ceiling on the second floor and the attic. So my thought is to fish the wires up through the first floor(no access), half to the left and half to the right and install stackers all the way along the height of the second floor.

eventually all the plaster and lathe will come down and insulation and drywall will go up. im paying my mortagage in oil heat come the winter time.

??with the stackers in place and 4 wires on both studs of the wall cavity can i then just place some fiberglass roll insulation in the cavity??

obviously i am an over thinker... thank you

Seems this type of project would be a heck of a lot easier to create a remote panel and run one feeder to it from the basement. This way your circuits would only need to home run to this remote or "sub-panel".

You would have virtually eliminated voltage drop issues if your home is of any significant size (since your running everything up to the attic before you re-drop back down). Don't know where you're located, but if you have a hot attic don't forget you'll need to adjust for that ambient temperature in the summer time.

You would only have one penetration to fireblock (going up) as well thus cutting down by half or more your circuit path penetrations between floors.

Since you'd be reducing the amount of 12 ga cable that you'd otherwise be running up from the basement and reducing the length of these circuits it may more than pay for the feeder circuit and panel, and allow you to upgrade the wiring to the present safety standards and modern demands for electrical power for this portion of your re-wire. It would also make the access a heck of a lot more convienent should you need to service these circuits.

NEC
Re: # of wires in wall space between studs
Gray Watson wrote:

Seems this type of project would be a heck of a lot easier to create a remote panel and run one feeder to it from the basement. This way your circuits would only need to home run to this remote or "sub-panel".

You would have virtually eliminated voltage drop issues if your home is of any significant size (since your running everything up to the attic before you re-drop back down). Don't know where you're located, but if you have a hot attic don't forget you'll need to adjust for that ambient temperature in the summer time.

You would only have one penetration to fireblock (going up) as well thus cutting down by half or more your circuit path penetrations between floors.

Since you'd be reducing the amount of 12 ga cable that you'd otherwise be running up from the basement and reducing the length of these circuits it may more than pay for the feeder circuit and panel, and allow you to upgrade the wiring to the present safety standards and modern demands for electrical power for this portion of your re-wire. It would also make the access a heck of a lot more convienent should you need to service these circuits.

Pure BS and not from anyone with any electrical background. For one thing a worry over voltage drop in an average home is of no concern at all.

Ernie_Fergler
Re: # of wires in wall space between studs
NEC wrote:

Pure BS and not from anyone with any electrical background. For one thing a worry over voltage drop in an average home is of no concern at all.

I agree. If we have to worry about voltage drop in a thirty foot run, we are all in big trouble....:D
Mainly because power companies factor voltage drop in out at the curb.

Re: # of wires in wall space between studs
Gray Watson wrote:

Seems this type of project would be a heck of a lot easier to create a remote panel and run one feeder to it from the basement.

Why is everyone so enfatuated with sub panels? There like sub problems. Is the main panel rated to feed a sub? You gonna feed that sub with ser? (more aluminum) more parts = more problems keep it simple .

Quote:

This way your circuits would only need to home run to this remote or "sub-panel".

You would have virtually eliminated voltage drop issues if your home is of any significant size (since your running everything up to the attic before you re-drop back down). .

voltage drop? its the 3rd floor not the 13th you can run a few hundred feet 14 before you need to be concerned with a drop, even more with 12

Quote:

Don't know where you're located, but if you have a hot attic don't forget you'll need to adjust for that ambient temperature in the summer time..

actually, yea ... one more reason I wouldnt add a sub
[/QUOTE]You would only have one penetration to fireblock (going up) as well thus cutting down by half or more your circuit path penetrations between floors.

Since you'd be reducing the amount of 12 ga cable that you'd otherwise be running up from the basement and reducing the length of these circuits it may more than pay for the feeder circuit and panel, and allow you to upgrade the wiring to the present safety standards and modern demands for electrical power for this portion of your re-wire. It would also make the access a heck of a lot more convienent should you need to service these circuits.[/QUOTE]

I couldn't disagree more
in order to put a sub in an attic the floor would need to be finished and you would need access to it through fixed stairs.

IMO sub panels have no place in the average home.

keep it simple

canuk
Re: # of wires in wall space between studs

Yep ... have to agree with ya Llyod ;)

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