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waltdeckhouse
Outdoor wiring

I am installing a new patio and want to run some lighting before the pad goes in. I have not decided whether to run 120VAC out to the pad edge...and connect a low voltage transformer near the light location OR run the low voltage wire from the house all the way to the fixture. My questions are

1. What is the code for the depth I need to bury the conduit if I run 120VAC?

2. Is there any similar code for the low voltage line (assuming the transformer has over current protection)?

3. Do I need to use conduit with the low voltage line?

4. is 120VAC or low voltage the preferred way to get power from the house near the location it is needed?

Thanks for any help.

-Walt

bsum1
Re: Outdoor wiring

Sorry I can't help with the requirments but, I would recommend running the 120 volts. If anything you'll find it's handy for all sorts of things , like a blender for making the cocktails.:D

kentvw
Re: Outdoor wiring

Per NEC Table 300.5

Residential applications and you can pick the approved wiring method you want be it UF cable, non-metallic or metallic conduit.
12” (For the most part) For 120volt or less, max overcurrent 20amps and GFCI protected.

6” for not more than 30volts installed with type UF or in other identified cable or raceway.

I’d be taking the 120 out to the patio and go from there.

waltdeckhouse
Re: Outdoor wiring

Does the 12" trench requirement apply to 12" below the patio top or is that to the soil under the pad? The pad is 2" gravel and 4" concrete.

If running 120VAC...I was considering using plastic conduit with 14 gauge romex downstream of a 15A GFCI outlet. Does that sound OK?

I was also considering terminating the 120VAC line at an outlet (mounted on a 4x4 post)and using a plug-in transformer for the lights. The outlet boxes I see at HD have a plastic cover that shields the plug, outlet, etc. Is this required by code? Should I hardwire the transformer instead?

Thanks for the advice!:)

-Walt

kentvw
Re: Outdoor wiring
waltdeckhouse wrote:

Does the 12" trench requirement apply to 12" below the patio top or is that to the soil under the pad? The pad is 2" gravel and 4" concrete.

If running 120VAC...I was considering using plastic conduit with 14 gauge romex downstream of a 15A GFCI outlet. Does that sound OK?

I was also considering terminating the 120VAC line at an outlet (mounted on a 4x4 post)and using a plug-in transformer for the lights. The outlet boxes I see at HD have a plastic cover that shields the plug, outlet, etc. Is this required by code? Should I hardwire the transformer instead?

Thanks for the advice!:)

-Walt

The rules change if the wiring method is under the 4" slab and at least 6" in from the edge. You can then go 6" deep for direct burial cable or 4" deep if using a raceway.

Yup, I'd use schedule 40 PVC if not subject to physical damage and schedule 80 if it is. Keep in mind that once the conduit goes underground it's considered a wet location and NM is not rated to be in damp or wet locations. (08 NEC 334.12 (B)(4)). You could use type UF though or, THWN individual conductors.

406.8 (B)...... 15/20amp 120/250volt receptacles in wet locations..."shall have an enclousure that is weather-proof whether or not the attachment plug cap is inserted."

The 2008 NEC added this twist........ "All 15/20amp 120/250volt nonlocking receptacles shall be listed weather-resistant type."

kentvw
Re: Outdoor wiring
waltdeckhouse wrote:

Should I hardwire the transformer instead?

-Walt

I was at work when I posted. I don't get paid by the hour but still feel rushed when posting so I'm not always complete with a post...........Anyway...........

Here's what I'd do:

Bring the feeder conduit into the bottom of a single gang bell box on the face side of your 4x4 and plant a duplex receptacle with a WP cover on it. Leave that open for general use.

There will be a hub in the back of the box and I would bore an 1 1/4" hole through the 4x4 and do a "back to back" install with another box and recept on the back side with a short conduit sleeve through the post. Plug your transformers in on the back side or hard-wire.

I view all available LV systems as temporary wiring and constant problem systems. I will not warranty any of them for any length of time.

Ernie_Fergler
Re: Outdoor wiring
kentvw wrote:

I was at work when I posted. I don't get paid by the hour but still feel rushed when posting so I'm not always complete with a post...........Anyway...........

Here's what I'd do:

Bring the feeder conduit into the bottom of a single gang bell box on the face side of your 4x4 and plant a duplex receptacle with a WP cover on it. Leave that open for general use.

There will be a hub in the back of the box and I would bore an 1 1/4" hole through the 4x4 and do a "back to back" install with another box and recept on the back side with a short conduit sleeve through the post. Plug your transformers in on the back side or hard-wire.

I view all available LV systems as temporary wiring and constant problem systems. I will not warranty any of them for any length of time.

LV wiring, one spade shovel away from a disconnect.:D

waltdeckhouse
Re: Outdoor wiring

Everyone is down on the LV thing, huh? I did not know that. Makes sense though...I have struggled with some interior lighting from Tech...that I am constantly messing around with (the sockets seem to go bad due to the heat).

So how would you handle lighting for a path, outdoor stairs or a walkway? I was thinking of using LEDs through a LV transformer. RU saying this is a fool's choice? I was hoping to avoid running conduit all along the path....but if that is the right way to do it...

-Walt

kentvw
Re: Outdoor wiring

If i told you what I REALLY thought about Tech Lighting it would not be fit for this forum. Here is an email string from TODAY!
This job ended a year ago and I have 1000's in replacement parts and labor and is WHY I no longer warranty.

_____________________________________________________

Antique Bronze

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: David
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:44 AM
To: Kent
Cc: Blaine
Subject: FW: HTC TYPE D14 WARRANTY

See below & plus freight

D

From: Matt
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 11:37 AM
To: David
Subject: RE: HTC TYPE D14 WARRANTY

Hey David,

It looks like the canopy part number is incorrect it should be 700FJ4RFS, also they have a bronze finish selected for the fixture and satin nickel for the canopy, and I priced both below:

00FJ4RFS: $86.50 ea, 4” round canopy satin nickel

700FJ4RFZ: $97.00 ea, 4” round canopy antique bronze

700FJMLTAZ: $171.00 ea, Melt Amber Frit antique bronze

Thanks,
Matt

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: David
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:45 PM
To: Katy
Subject: HTC TYPE D14 WARRANTY

Hi
I need………
Type D14 - Tech Lighting

700FJFRS

700FJMLTAZ

Thanks
Blaine

From: Kent
Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 1:13 PM
To: David
Subject: HTC
Importance: High

David,

Todd Creek, *&%^#@* Tech Lighting issues will not die.

I need a canopy kit and transformer for the type D-14 Tech Lighting.

P.O. Todd Creek Warranty

K

___________________________________________________

Walt, what kind of "look" do you want?

Fencepost
Re: Outdoor wiring

I think the NEC doesn't really address low-voltage lighting, as most of the "homeowner-grade" stuff is designed for "temporary" installation, and the NEC doesn't regulate temporary wiring.

Therefore, the designs and construction tend to be shoddy.

Testing labs like UL test for basic safety, not for quality or longevity.

waltdeckhouse
Re: Outdoor wiring

What look am I going for...hmmm. I was thinking of lights that are close to the ground and project a cone across the path. I was thinking of alternating the sides to make it more interesting. On the stairs I was thinking of mounting lights on the handrail and project them on the treads. I have no plans for lighting around the patio....but I know I do not want a big flood light. Maybe something around the edges to cast some light on the surface.

Any thoughts on how I go about this? Does it include running conduit from/to each fixture?

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