Home>Discussions>ELECTRICAL & LIGHTING># of wires in wall space between studs
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charleswaz
Re: # of wires in wall space between studs

I thought about a sub panel in the attic however I do not look forward to the prospect of climbing into the attic to reset breakers.

As for old work vs new work I am handling this as if it were new work since i am gutting the house room by room to update it so I am using the stackers and will use the fire block caulk through every passage point.

It is also a smaller house 1400sqf so hopefully voltage drop wont be an issue.
Thank you all for your help.

havanagranite
Re: # of wires in wall space between studs

using fire caulk only does any good if the whole house isn't made out of wood.

Ernie_Fergler
Re: # of wires in wall space between studs
havanagranite wrote:

using fire caulk only does any good if the whole house isn't made out of wood.

Try running that one by an inspector.:D

havanagranite
Re: # of wires in wall space between studs
Ernie_Fergler wrote:

Try running that one by an inspector.:D

they don't require it around here. fire caulk is just one component in a fire rated system, but I suppose they figure that if they can slow it down even just a little without raising the cost dramatically that it is worth it.

Timothy Miller
Re: # of wires in wall space between studs

[QUOTE=Ernie_Fergler]....As Lloyd posted, do not pull one 12/3 in place of two runs of 12/2. That was quite common in its day. But when installing AFCI breakers you can not share the neutral, so 12/3 would create headaches.....

Howdy, a big oopsee came to mind when i read this i did use 14/3 wire split at one bedroom. I planned on AFCI breakers in each bedrooom . A giant thanks for your post so now i will either repull 14/2 or caculate if two bedrooms can be on one AFCI. glad i saw this before i enclosed all the walls and ceilings... Thanks again. Tim

Timothy Miller
Re: # of wires in wall space between studs

Oh reguarding stackers... i used the expensive ones that let you slide the wires in and out. The hard noised but very good state inspectior told me of the much less expensive 3 and 4 wire stacker staples . I owe him as these saved allot of $.
Also if stapeling multible wires to 2by 4s remember if severalwires use stackers as need 1 1/4" of wood from wire to edge of board...

Gray Watson
Re: # of wires in wall space between studs

I never suggested a remote panel in the attic! I was suggesting it be placed where the original poster had already excavated on the second floor.

Basement to attic and return to second floor for seven circuits is a lot of wire.

The crap about service equipment panel not being rated for a sub is downright stupid.

You can run a simple 4-wire (2 hots, neutral & ground) feeder to a remote distribution 120/240 panel with a "main" breaker. There is no need to use aluminum or SER to do so, in fact it would be the most stupid choice. From there you can handle 8 or more 120 circuits. Since the Original Poster has indicated he wants 7 circuits on the second floor and he is accessing the majority via the attic this is the most logical choice. You can opt to use AFCI or GFCI breakers on this remote panel, thereby upgrading to current standards your wiring project on the second floor.

That remote panel will be fed by a double pole breaker on your present panel. Thereby reserving the other five breaker positions (7 2nd floor circuits) you would otherwise have used home-running those 2nd floor circuits to the main panel for future use as you upgrade the first floor wiring in the future.

I might add that 30 feet for a home run circuit from a basement to an attic above then dropping to a 2nd floor would be mighty short ceiling clearances (midget house!), and home running circuits from one end or the other of the house via the attic and dropping down opposite walls could make for a lot of cable and dozens of fire stop penetrations that would otherwise be unnecessary, especially since the entire first floor walls and plates are presently unaccessible as per the original poster.

Feeder for an inside the residence remote distribution panel is no more complicated than installing a 4-wire 240 appliance circuit outlet.

Re: # of wires in wall space between studs
Gray Watson wrote:

I never suggested a remote panel in the attic! I was suggesting it be placed where the original poster had already excavated on the second floor.I assumed you were suggesting to put it in the attic, I stand corrected, tho I still disagree with the use of a sub panel

Basement to attic and return to second floor for seven circuits is a lot of wire.not really, you could wrap 12 wire around that house 3 or 4 times before the concern for drop arises

The crap about service equipment panel not being rated for a sub is downright stupid.If your going to stoop to the level of name calling show evidence and credentials or choose another way to express yourself please.

You can run a simple 4-wire (2 hots, neutral & ground) feeder to a remote distribution 120/240 panel with a "main" breaker.why would you need a main in a sub? Are you suggesting aa unprotected tap in the service conductors to feed the sub? There is no need to use aluminum or SER to do so, in fact it would be the most stupid Once again name calling serves no real purpose but to offend. If you know a better way express it, I have been wrong before and I'm not too proud too admit when I'm wrongchoice. From there you can handle 8 or more 120 circuits. Since the Original Poster has indicated he wants 7 circuits on the second floor and he is accessing the majority via the attic this is the most logical choice. Not in my opinion, adding a sub only reduces the the length of romex ran, cost is relatively the same, you can opt to use AFCI or GFCI breakers on this remote panel, thereby upgrading to current standards your wiring project on the second floor.
thats up to the awj and local ordances, many require the addition of afci in the existing panel and line voltage interconnected smokes added to current standards when a sub is installed.
That remote panel will be fed by a double pole breaker on your present panel. Thereby reserving the other five breaker positions (7 2nd floor circuits) you would otherwise have used home-running those 2nd floor circuits to the main panel for future use as you upgrade the first floor wiring in the future.

I might add that 30 feet for a home run circuit from a basement to an attic above then dropping to a 2nd floor would be mighty short ceiling clearances (midget house!), and home running circuits from one end or the other of the house via the attic and dropping down opposite walls could make for a lot of cable and dozens of fire stop penetrations that would otherwise be unnecessary, not really, a hand full more but theres a lot of fire caulk in one tube.
especially since the entire first floor walls and plates are presently unaccessible as per the original poster.

Feeder for an inside the residence remote distribution panel is no more complicated than installing a 4-wire 240 appliance circuit outlet.

I'm not arguing that your suggestion is wrong, it would, indeed, meet code requirements. I am saying that in my opinion A sub panel isn't needed, tho you could use one, I dont think its the best idea. Once again I'll say it would meet the minimum standards the code requires, alltho the code isnt a guide for electrical instalations.

Ernie_Fergler
Re: # of wires in wall space between studs
Timothy Miller][QUOTE=Ernie_Fergler wrote:

....As Lloyd posted, do not pull one 12/3 in place of two runs of 12/2. That was quite common in its day. But when installing AFCI breakers you can not share the neutral, so 12/3 would create headaches.....

Howdy, a big oopsee came to mind when i read this i did use 14/3 wire split at one bedroom. I planned on AFCI breakers in each bedrooom . A giant thanks for your post so now i will either repull 14/2 or caculate if two bedrooms can be on one AFCI. glad i saw this before i enclosed all the walls and ceilings... Thanks again. Tim

There is no magic number in regards to an outlet tally when all is said and done. I personally use the total of eight per circuit. But that is just me.
You can leave the 14/3 in place. Just cap the red conductor so it will not be in use. Then pull another feed of 14/2 if you have to.
I would rather see you use 12/2 instead, truth be told. I believe those five more amps are beneficial when factoring in the 80% of the load total of a circuit.

NEC
Re: # of wires in wall space between studs

A member like lloyd knows what he is talking about........... The interaction with lesliek makes me LMAO!......... Keep it up is my hope.

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