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westom
Re: Whole House Surge Protector
deadshort wrote:

Westom, please describe the "single point earthing system" that you have on your home.

I already have.

More interesting is a friends single point ground. 33,000 volt wire dropped onto local distribution. Over 100 electric meters literally exploded from their pans. Many neighbors suffered appliance and power strip protector damage. At least one had a damaged circuit breaker.

My friend knows someone who undertands this stuff. He had one 'whole house' protector and earthing as defined repeatedly above and by post 1990 National Electrical code. He also suffered electric meter damage. And nothing else was damaged. Even the 'whole house' protector remains functional today.

Unfortunately, there is no method to test earthing. We install the best single point ground possible. Then if damage occurs, discover why that ground and connections to it were not sufficient. And earth ground that is essential to human safety is also enhanced for transistor safety - even from a 33,000 volt utility fault.

djohns
Re: Whole House Surge Protector
westom wrote:

I already have.

More interesting is a friends single point ground. 33,000 volt wire dropped onto local distribution. Over 100 electric meters literally exploded from their pans. Many neighbors suffered appliance and power strip protector damage. At least one had a damaged circuit breaker.

My friend knows someone who undertands this stuff. He had one 'whole house' protector and earthing as defined repeatedly above and by post 1990 National Electrical code. He also suffered electric meter damage. And nothing else was damaged. Even the 'whole house' protector remains functional today.

Unfortunately, there is no method to test earthing. We install the best single point ground possible. Then if damage occurs, discover why that ground and connections to it were not sufficient. And earth ground that is essential to human safety is also enhanced for transistor safety - even from a 33,000 volt utility fault.

No method to test " earthing ? Wrong again , sport . Use your Google powers to search for " Fall of potential ground testing " or " clamp on ground testing " . Both methods are commonly used . :)

djohns
Re: Whole House Surge Protector
deadshort wrote:

Wow! Interesting.

Westom, please describe the "single point earthing system" that you have on your home.

He ( or she ) won't . Better to hurl insults an accusations . ;)

westom
Re: Whole House Surge Protector
djohns wrote:

No method to test " earthing ? Wrong again , sport .

No wonder you foolishly posted the myth about surges entering via the ground. You still don't understand 'single point earth ground' when it is explained so many times.

In the Orange County FL and other examples - earth ground was conductive. But still not sufficient.

A Duke Energy citation shows conductive earthing that still must be changed to create sufficient single point earthing.

Earthing is an art. Many electricians who only learned code requirements would never know. The only way to test an earthing system is a surge - ie direct lightning strike. That is when humans finally learn if they got it right. Even direct lightning strikes should never result in damage.

In one home, a single point earth ground was properly installed after frequent surges. And lightning still found earth ground destructively via home appliances. Apparently, a graphite vein existed on the far side of that house. Geology compromised the earthing system. Surge was still obtaining better earth ground via household appliances.

The solution was to encircle the building with a ground ring. See National Electrical code Article 250.52(A)(4) to learn how that unexpected failure was eliminated.

The electrician said nothing can protect from lightning. But then the home owner knew others who learn rather than just recite mantra. That ground ring was installed. No more surge damage.

Unfortunately, we don't discover human mistakes until the final test - a lightning created surge. In most cases, it works the first and every time. When damage does happen, humans then hunt for and discover that human created earthing mistake. Routine is surges with no damage even to a protector. Appliance damage is directly traceable to a human mistake.

djohns
Re: Whole House Surge Protector
westom wrote:

No wonder you foolishly posted the myth about surges entering via the ground. You still don't understand 'single point earth ground' when it is explained so many times.

I reviewed the handfull of posts I made in this thread and can't find where I posted anything about surges entering via the ground . Care to quote me ? And you are wrong about not being able to test ground resistance . Ask any electrical engineer .

westom
Re: Whole House Surge Protector
deadshort wrote:

Westin, you are such a tease! PLllLEEEEEEEEEEEase! Pretty please post photos of your homes single point earthing system! I wanna see and sure others do as well!

So, do you want me to dig it up? Ater doing all that, you have learned nothing. Send me a check for $20,000. That should cover it.

JLMCDANIEL
Re: Whole House Surge Protector

Westom,
“tschmidt is a professional who does this stuff.” I have to ask what stuff? His blog is about networking, networking equipment, connecting to the internet, choosing the right antenna and preamp for over the air DTV, a wood heat controller, a bath room fan timer, and his interest in 1962-1980 MGB’s. While he lists himself as a consultant he lists no credentials or description of what he consults. Any one can call themselves a consultant.

I have no problem with the IEEE or the NIST, I do have a problem with people using a line or paragraph to justify conclusions that ignore all other factors that are involved. I have researched a lot of their information on low voltage AC systems. I particularly enjoyed reading several of the articles about lightening strikes to the primary side of an overhead distribution system and how it would produce a branching of current flow into the ground system of a low voltage AC circuit after spark over of the pole mounted utility's surge arrestor. The resulting current flow on the ground system induces high frequency surges through electromagnetic and some capacitive coupling in the phase leads. Wow, lightening surges on the ground system causing problems or do you dispute findings sited by the IEEE and publications of the NIST. They seem to confirm my nasty accusations and 'Google search' conclusions. Your conclusions based on single point grounding ignores the wiring of the system and the induction factors caused by the current flow on the ground conductors.

You stated “We install the best single point ground possible. Then if damage occurs, discover why that ground and connections to it were not sufficient.” If it was the best single point ground possible according to your posts there should be no damage and how do you correct the best single point ground possible.

Just about anyone who has been involved in electronics or electrical field or in the military in the electrical field since WWII has learned about the Ufer ground, however most people refer to it as “concrete encased ground electrode" which is also the way it is referred to in Code and most technical journals.. It is hardly a new concept that only you have the knowledge to impart to others.
Jack

A. Spruce
Re: Whole House Surge Protector
deadshort wrote:

Hey westist..

Careful there DS, you may fall into the abyss that is the domain of trolls! :eek:

Ernie_Fergler
Re: Whole House Surge Protector
deadshort wrote:

Westin, you are such a tease! PLllLEEEEEEEEEEEase! Pretty please post photos of your homes single point earthing system! I wanna see and sure others do as well!

I was trying to picture that in my mind as well.
Inquiring minds want to know.....:D

Re: Whole House Surge Protector

Westom I couldnt help but notice some very interesting points in your arguments, but the condescending nature of your post disgust me. Perhaps you could take into consideration that not everyone on the internets that isnt YOU is a moron, and arrange your post to reflect some humility. You may find your points better received and we could all benefit from them.

Lloyd

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