Home>Discussions>TV>TV House Projects>Newton Centre (2009)>Whoa, major electrical safety violations
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JLMCDANIEL
Re: Whoa, major electrical safety violations

70e is a little much for anyone working in the real world.
Jack

sterry21
Re: Whoa, major electrical safety violations

I have been a huge fan of your show for many years, but I was absolutely astonished to see Program 2905 and the installation of a temporary electrical service under live power conditions.

Live work by electricians is covered in the US by the NFPA 70E “Standard for Electrical Safety in the Workplace”. During show 2905, electrician Allen Gallant totally ignored even the most basic safety procedures for live work dictated by NFPA 70E. These include the use of appropriate Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) for protection against arc flash and electrocution. In this case, minimum PPE should have included safety glasses, a hard hat, and voltage-rated gloves. None of these were in evidence during the live splicing operation.

Mr. Gallant’s statement during the show about the safety of the operation relating to the composite ladder he was using was both incomplete and incorrect. A very high percentage of live-work electrical accidents involve arc-flash rather than electrocution. A composite ladder does nothing to protect against arc-flash.

Moreover, the fact that the script lacked a “Don’t try this at home” warning is of great concern. Given the DIY nature of This Old House viewers, depicting such a potentially dangerous live operation without appropriate safety gear or warnings is just plain irresponsible. This Old House needs to take a leadership position in jobsite and shop safety, not the sort of "cowboy” position embodied in the electrical work on Show 2905.

Steve Terry
Member, National Electrical Code Panel 15

NEC
Re: Whoa, major electrical safety violations

Well there is a Steve Terry listed on the panel 15 alternates in the 08 NEC.

For those that missed what all of the hubbub is about........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7DXghWkuP8

I'll first say that the segment should not have been aired but Alan probably came from old school training like me, where what he did was pretty common at one time. I have done it many times myself........ My only rule was never in a rain storm

The segment has been resoundingly trashed on a few electrical/electricians discussion forums and that does not surprise me.

On the other hand I am rewriting our company safety policy and employee training to comply with 70E and have gone to these same forums with some basic questions about other companies compliance......... Many have no clue what "PPE" even means and have never even heard of NFPA 70E.

I am of slightly below average intelligence and wading through 70E. It has been quite the task.

Oh, I think Steve missed the now required hearing protection part.

Remember to wear your safety glasses folks.

sterry21
Re: Whoa, major electrical safety violations
NEC wrote:

Well there is a Steve Terry listed on the panel 15 alternates in the 08 NEC.

For those that missed what all of the hubbub is about........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7DXghWkuP8

I'll first say that the segment should not have been aired but Alan probably came from old school training like me, where what he did was pretty common at one time. I have done it many times myself........ My only rule was never in a rain storm

The segment has been resoundingly trashed on a few electrical/electricians discussion forums and that does not surprise me.

On the other hand I am rewriting our company safety policy and employee training to comply with 70E and have gone to these same forums with some basic questions about other companies compliance......... Many have no clue what "PPE" even means and have never even heard of NFPA 70E.

I am of slightly below average intelligence and wading through 70E. It has been quite the task.

Oh, I think Steve missed the now required hearing protection part.

Remember to wear your safety glasses folks.

Right you are, NEC--hearing protection--I missed it! And I'm glad to hear that I am actually on CMP 15! :)

I came late to this party, and attempted to send my comments to the producers of TOH. The email bounced (a full mailbox!), so I thought the forum was the next best thing--and I just copied the message here.

You guys have obviously thrashed through this egregious error on the part of the TOH producers, and I am not sure I have any more to add--but it sounds like we are all on basically the same page!

BTW, I used to just walk into a facility and hook up PQ analysis equipment to a 3000A panels-off service in shirtsleeves. Then I read NFPA 70E. I guess we all need to operate differently now in 2009.

Steve Terry

JLMCDANIEL
Re: Whoa, major electrical safety violations

I have a couple questions. In the real world tools take a beating, especially company furnished tools. Is there a standard in 70E that requires recertification of the tools V rating? Is there a color code or marking requirement to designate the tool as V Rated?

Jack

JLMCDANIEL
Re: Whoa, major electrical safety violations

Another question, are you actually going to put on a pair of V rated gloves every time you change a CB?
Jack

NEC
Re: Whoa, major electrical safety violations
JLMCDANIEL wrote:

Another question, are you actually going to put on a pair of V rated gloves every time you change a CB?
Jack

"Company Policy" For us will say yes you will......... I am wondering about the laundering requirements for PPE......... Do we now need to keep a log of how the clothing was washed? What it was washed in? The water temp? The cleaning product used? How it was dried? How it is stored?

NEC
Re: Whoa, major electrical safety violations
JLMCDANIEL wrote:

I have a couple questions. In the real world tools take a beating, especially company furnished tools. Is there a standard in 70E that requires recertification of the tools V rating? Is there a color code or marking requirement to designate the tool as V Rated?

Jack

You can access NFPA 70 Here.

http://www.nfpa.org/index.asp?src=nfpa

Article 250 covers tools.

Can not find anything on color but everything I have seen is orange.

JLMCDANIEL
Re: Whoa, major electrical safety violations

I've seen orange, red, yellow, yellow and blue,red and yellow, blue and orange,red and blue, black and yellow, orange and yellow. I've also seen most of these colors on cheap tools made in China.

How is an inspector going to know if the tools are/were V rated and if they are still compliant? It would seem to me that if the requirement is made a standard for identification would also be specified.

How are the cloths going to be identified? Is the inspector going to have to climb a ladder and check a collar label or is there going to be a big 70E on the back?

It would seem to me that to many of these standards are going to be hard to enforce or verify.
Jack

Sten
Re: Whoa, major electrical safety violations
Edge1289 wrote:

OSHA, NESC, NFPA 70E asside, I find it inconceivable that TOH would show Allen disconnect and reconnect the power co service in the manner he employed. I know electricians do their own disconnects and reconnects all the time, but to basically condone the unsafe practices that were aired in the episode does a diservice to the viewing public who may believe they can get away with what Allen did on that roof and ladder.

I am a Chief Lineman for an investor owned public utility. I have been a lineman for over 37 years and work on voltages much higher than 120/240 residential services. I would never, repeat never, disconnect a service in the manner displayed in the epidode.

Whats a Epidode, LOLOL, :):D

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