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DIY SC
Re: Unusual outdoor project - need advice
keith3267 wrote:

"•Collar ties are probably not needed if metal connectors were used to fasten the rafters to the ridge.

•Where they are required, they should be installed on every other rafter where rafters are on 24-inch centers.

•Collar ties, contrary to popular belief, do not prevent walls from spreading."

Misinformation on the internet, imagine that.

If you have a continuous ridge beam, at least continuous between each support post, then you don't need the collar ties. The quote you got was for a continuous ridge beam and it doesn't look like that is what you are using.

Put the collar ties about halfway down and they will provide support, and you will need one on every truss.

I definitely realize there is indeed misinformation on the web, but I had hoped the web site I found with that info would be somewhat dependable. (It was from the " International Association of Certified Home Inspectors")

Anyhow I am one that prefers to try to lean towards more structural support than the minimum allowed (as my budget permits.)

This is still a work in progress, but I have added one collar tie thus far and will be adding more.

Since this roof frame is only going to hold chicken wire covered by a large tarp and not heavy plywood it would seem it will be more than sturdy enough, right ?

Thanks Keith, I do appreciate all the ideas !

keith3267
Re: Unusual outdoor project - need advice

I think with the ties, it will be plenty sturdy. The fact that you are not using plywood means that it has to be more self supporting, not less. Even though the plywood would add weight, is some small way it helps spread the load among several trusses, chicken wire does not do that. But it would be easy to get carried away. I think you will be OK. I would add at least one member, a tie that goes from the middle of one tie to the ridge of a truss a couple trusses away to prevent longitudinal racking. One would be the minimum, one at each end would probably be the maximum number of these members.

DIY SC
Re: Unusual outdoor project - need advice

two pics to show progress of wood frame so far (I plan on adding more ties)

http://scdiy.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=190803516

http://scdiy.webs.com/apps/photos/photo?photoid=190803515

dj1
Re: Unusual outdoor project - need advice

Thanks for the update, it looks like it's going to work. Is it stable?

The dog is saying: "what's taking so long?"

DIY SC
Re: Unusual outdoor project - need advice
dj1 wrote:

Thanks for the update, it looks like it's going to work. Is it stable?

The dog is saying: "what's taking so long?"

It's not like iron of course, but it feels more than stable enough for just being a frame for a large tarp.

Yep, our dog, Xena, supervises me when I'm working on it, and occasionally grabs her Frisbee and brings it to me to get me to take a play break, so she will definitely be glad when it's done so she'll have more play time :)

Also she'll be glad when it's done so her dry / shady area isn't limited to half of that area like it is now :)

keith3267
Re: Unusual outdoor project - need advice

Looking good, I'm guessing that you have busted the budget already.

DIY SC
Re: Unusual outdoor project - need advice
keith3267 wrote:

Looking good, I'm guessing that you have busted the budget already.

Thanks, actually most of what I have used thus far was material that was sitting around for a long while that originally was for extending a backyard deck, but that project got put on indefinite hold for now.

I did have to get some odds and ends and some more 4x4s to get this far, almost halfway. (and still need to get 8 more 2x4s to finish out the rafters on the 3rd section)

The remainder will be completed a section at a time as the budget allows, in the meantime it will be about half wood frame, half PVC frame and reducing the PVC framed half as I can extend the wood frame further.

Mastercarpentry
Re: Unusual outdoor project - need advice

Howdy neighbor- near Greenville here :cool: and I've been watching your project from the start of this thread. So far I think you're meeting your goals well, do add the extra collar ties. While they may not prevent spreading as well as possible they will help with that and without them you're sure to have problems when we get a similar snow 85 years from now (just kidding but we know how rare this one was for us). What brings me to speak now is the "afternoon and evening showers and thunderstorms likely" forecast we're going to get for the next 6 months :rolleyes:

This thing is going to catch a LOT of wind and Xena doesn't need to be digging out from under a debris heap. So how are you attaching the tarps? I'd think they will tear away from the edges with a big wind which would save the structure. Plywood would just make this problem worse since it wouldn't release like that and it would be adding weight and causing more load. I've seen several pole barns damaged by wind, usually just losing the tin, but a few lost the entire roof structure and a few (where the poles weren't deep enough) even got blown away intact till they landed and broke up. The chicken wire will give you enough support from loads above be they wind or snow but none from underneath. Might be best to attach the tarps with the intention that they pull away with enough wind, yet still have one corner firmly attached so you're not looking for them in the next county afterward.

I honestly doubt that we'll see another snow like this one (only got 2" here but it varied hugely as you know) but then again we weren't expecting this one. The summer storms are a different story though- we know they're coming and some places will get hit pretty hard, same as always so that would be my biggest worry. Wish I had that much room for my Luci dog. I could about fit my entire lot, house and all, under there with fishing room for ten people left over. I can't let her see the pics in case she gets ideas- I ain't ready to move just yet!

Phil

DIY SC
Re: Unusual outdoor project - need advice
Mastercarpentry wrote:

Howdy neighbor- near Greenville here :cool: and I've been watching your project from the start of this thread. So far I think you're meeting your goals well, do add the extra collar ties. While they may not prevent spreading as well as possible they will help with that and without them you're sure to have problems when we get a similar snow 85 years from now (just kidding but we know how rare this one was for us). What brings me to speak now is the "afternoon and evening showers and thunderstorms likely" forecast we're going to get for the next 6 months :rolleyes:

This thing is going to catch a LOT of wind and Xena doesn't need to be digging out from under a debris heap. So how are you attaching the tarps? I'd think they will tear away from the edges with a big wind which would save the structure. Plywood would just make this problem worse since it wouldn't release like that and it would be adding weight and causing more load. I've seen several pole barns damaged by wind, usually just losing the tin, but a few lost the entire roof structure and a few (where the poles weren't deep enough) even got blown away intact till they landed and broke up. The chicken wire will give you enough support from loads above be they wind or snow but none from underneath. Might be best to attach the tarps with the intention that they pull away with enough wind, yet still have one corner firmly attached so you're not looking for them in the next county afterward.

I honestly doubt that we'll see another snow like this one (only got 2" here but it varied hugely as you know) but then again we weren't expecting this one. The summer storms are a different story though- we know they're coming and some places will get hit pretty hard, same as always so that would be my biggest worry. Wish I had that much room for my Luci dog. I could about fit my entire lot, house and all, under there with fishing room for ten people left over. I can't let her see the pics in case she gets ideas- I ain't ready to move just yet!

Phil

Hey Phil, thanks for the comments !

Amazingly enough the tarp on the PVC framed half of the canopy survived today's wind gusts of up to 40 MPH and it is simply attached by the grommets about every 4 feet or so. (the tarp is stretched tightly over the frame) The PVC frame flexed in the wind but is ok too.

So considering that, having the tarp stretched tightly over the wood frame/chicken wire should survive even more easily than on the PVC, wouldn't you think ?

We are figuring since the weight on the rafters is usually only going to be from the tarp and chicken wire that having a tie every other rafter should be enough, especially considering all of the rafters are screwed to the top of the 2x8s using metal hurricane tie plates. (I could always quickly add more tie boards later if another rare heavy snow was forecast)

Also, the 4x4 posts (to which the horizontal 2x8s are bolted to) are set about 2 feet in the ground with concrete.

You might not let your Luci dog see the pics so she don't get ideas, but I'm sure she is happy with having love and attention from you all :)

A friend of mine said when it's completed I might have the world's largest doghouse :)

Technically it wouldn't be a doghouse without having walls, but I plan on later adding some kind of privacy fence or screening on the far end and the right side so as to keep Xena's barking reduced as she still tends to bark when she sees a person or cat in the distance :)

Xena is very much a social dog and prefers for me to be out there with her, so there is plenty of room for her to exercise me in her yard :) (she'll sometimes grab a toy and want me to chase her, other times she'll bring a Frisbee or ball for me to throw)

I'm hoping to have the framing for roughly the first half finished by the end of the week and get the second tarp back up so the whole yard is covered again, the other half will stay as the original PVC covered tarp for now and I'll finish framing the second half with wood as the budget allows.

I'll see about posting more pics after the initial framing is finished and also how it looks after the tarp is put on it.

Gary

DIY SC
Re: Unusual outdoor project - need advice

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