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Lin
selecting new toilet - American Standard, Gerber or Toto

Bought a 1960s house, and now need to replace the original toilet (cracked lid, and leaking from tank bolt).

Done a lil'looking in box stores and on-line, and was thinking about American Standard Champion, but then heard there was some kind of class action suit. And that it was difficult to bolt down, and it wobbled. Anyone know more about this?

In addition to replacing this old toilet, want to install a new one in basement (rough plumbing is in place), so essentially looking for two reliable, nothing fancy toilets. Have heard the name, Gerber mentioned as a plumber's choice. And Toto.

Any suggestions.

johnjh2o
Re: selecting new toilet - American Standard, Gerber or Toto

Toto would be my first chose, followed by American Standard then Gerber.

John

Fencepost
Re: selecting new toilet - American Standard, Gerber or Toto

I've heard the Gerber Viper has really good performance. Don't know anything about reliability or ease of installation.

H4nz
Re: selecting new toilet - American Standard, Gerber or Toto

I think ToTo has the most powerful flush I would go with that.

HoustonRemodeler
Re: selecting new toilet - American Standard, Gerber or Toto

Toto is at the top of my list

druryd
Re: selecting new toilet - American Standard, Gerber or Toto

As an employee of American Standard, the Champion4 has the industry's widest 2 3/8" trapway and 4" flush valve; it has created a plunger free world for homeowners and virtually eliminated clogged toilet call backs for plumbers. The Champion4 will move a mass 70% larger than the industry’s standard toilet. It achieves the highest bulk removal rating of 1,000 grams and will even flush a bucket of golf balls! This means you can flush with confidence and never worry about plunging a toilet again!! Check out our website for a Champion4 flushing demonstration video.

As to the lawsuit against the Champion (not the Champion4), was found to be completely without merit and was dismissed by the courts, in American Standard’s favor.

The Champion 4 toilet does not have a wobble problem. Sometimes the floor is not even, which can cause the bowl to not sit evenly. It can be shimmed to be level. This is a problem with the floor, not the toilet. The Champion4 toilet installs like a regular toilet. It is not different or more difficult than any other toilet installation. In fact, the Champion4 Complete models sold through our retail outlets come with “no-tools” installation parts. Everything needed to install the toilet comes in the box and can be hand tightened. No extra tools are needed for an easy installation that can be done with confidence. These models also come with a slow-close toilet seat included. Check out our website for a video on No Tools installation.

The Champion4 is backed by a 10 year limited warranty. But, don’t listen to me a leading consumer magazine named it the best toilet.

As far as economical, reliable toilets options, American Standard offers many other economical toilets which don’t have all the “bells and whistles” of the Champion4 but still have great flushing performance and are very reliable. Consider the Cadet3, Saver, or Mainstream toilets sold through out retail channel, or Cadet3 or Evolution2 toilets sold at wholesale distributors.

Happy toilet shopping!

Lin
Re: selecting new toilet - American Standard, Gerber or Toto

***, looks like Champion4 will more than do :) ...... now, is there a difference between the AS Champion 4s sold in the big box stores, and those sold via plumbing supply houses? Cuz there are differences with other "brands" sold in the big box stores.

Any suggestions re: height - some say to go with the "higher" toilets now, in the event that somewhere down the line, that extra 1" height will make a huge difference.

HoustonRemodeler
Re: selecting new toilet - American Standard, Gerber or Toto

I'll beg to differ on the wobble part.

Unless those specific toilets are machined perfectly flat on the bottoms some of them will wobble. Typical toilets are not machined, but are molded and sometimes wobble. Its not uncommon, and is very fixable.

When a wobbly toilet is shimmed, from there it can be caulked to the floor as any toilet, mostly for cleanliness and appearance. Use 100% silicone for best results and DO NOT caulk all the way around the base, but instead leave a 2-3" gap in the rear. This will allow any leaks to appear readily.

Lin
Re: selecting new toilet - American Standard, Gerber or Toto

Am hoping the American Standard expert can help with this question. I went ****** and found two American Standard Champion 4s - what's the major difference here? Aside from height. :confused:

American Standard Champion 4
Complete 2-piece Round Toilet in White
Model # 2585.000.020 Store SKU # 713641

$218.00 /EA-Each

American Standard Champion 4
Right Height Elongated Toilet Combination Tank and Bowl in White
Model # 2002.014.020 Internet # 202499461

$326.00 /EA-Each

druryd
Re: selecting new toilet - American Standard, Gerber or Toto

Great "crylakel" we are glad you will be selecting a Champion4

The Champion4 toilets sold at the Big Box stores are the identical toilets sold at the plumbing supply houses—identical in quality, parts, and performance. The difference is that the toilets sold in the Big Box stores are “complete” toilets all in one box—they come complete with a seat, wax ring, and flange bolts. These would need to be purchased separately from the plumbing supply house.

The Complete toilets sold at the Big Box stores also come with the “No additional tools needed” installation components which can all be hand tightened when installing the toilet. They make it easy for the do-it-yourselfer, and let someone who has never done a toilet installation before feel more confident that they can do the job correctly. The “no tools” components are not included with the bowls and tanks sold at the plumbing supply houses.

There is definitely a growing trend that many people feel the taller height bowls are more comfortable to sit on and easier to get on and off, but it is still an individual choice. American Standard offers “right height”® elongated, normal height round front, and right height round front toilets in various Big Box stores.

We offer right height elongated and normal height elongated and round front toilets at the plumbing supply houses. The right height round front is only offered at a limited number of Home Depot stores and is not available at plumbing supply houses.

The reason for the difference in price in the two models you found is the Right Height and the Elongated seat are both a premium so; it will cost a little more.

I personally like sitting on an elongated seat but, it is your personal choice.

johnjh2o
Re: selecting new toilet - American Standard, Gerber or Toto

All this hype about American Standard. I have seen do one mention the fact that they have the highest return for manufacture defects then any other major brand. At one time they had a good product. Back in the 1960's. Then they went for the quite flushing toilet. From that point on it was all down hill. The flush was terrible then and it is the same today. Before you buy one take the bowls out of the box and set them on the floor. I bet it takes at least three before you find one that doesn't wobble. The castings are horrible. The only reason in my first post on this thread I made Std. my 2nd choice was because the other choice was Gerber which is a secondary line of fixtures and as far as I'm concerned American Standard is well on it's way to becoming one also.

John

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