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TRLambert
Re: red staining on chimney
TRLambert

I don't know much about this but is it possible the flashing used on top of the chimney could be a non-lead metal and it is deteriorating and causing the staining? It also looks like in your first picture that the chimney is stone. Don't masons use metal hangers to hold the stone to the substrate? Couldn't one of these be exposed in/through the mortar, is rusting, and causing the staining.

Just a couple of thoughts. Tim

keithp
Re: red staining on chimney
keithp
TRLambert wrote:

I don't know much about this but is it possible the flashing used on top of the chimney could be a non-lead metal and it is deteriorating and causing the staining? It also looks like in your first picture that the chimney is stone. Don't masons use metal hangers to hold the stone to the substrate? Couldn't one of these be exposed in/through the mortar, is rusting, and causing the staining.

Just a couple of thoughts. Tim

Thanks for the thoughts ...

To answer your questions
a) The chimney chase shown is actually a faux cultured veneer stone chimney with a smooth Quikrete cement top.
b) The 'live' working inner all-fuel stainless steel pipe is independent and not in contact with outer stone veneer box.
c) The staining is coming out of the pipe based on the cirucular disperement pattern on the cement on top of the chimney below the chimney cap. There are fine particles that appear to be leaching the red; photo 4 is a closeup of the debris leaching on the top of the chimney.

Blue RidgeParkway
Re: red staining on chimney
Blue RidgeParkway

Get a Certified Chimney Sweep inspection (CSIA.ORG).

Flue vent what type different types of SS liners/chimineys. How is the stainless flue seperated from the chase and the original liner to prevent it from cooling, condensation, and allowing good draft? SS was a change? what was the old? Oil burner red clay tile?

That's a lot of debris. I'd be checking exchanger and/or damper. Don't see a cap on the masonry facade/chase. What are you doing for combustion air?

Forced air furnace or is it a boiler? What type/efficiency/size? How do you get heat your domestic hot water? Fuel burning appliance? how is that vented?

How was your replacement "liner" sized? Make sure you request that your chimney sweep calculates what you should have and that what you do have meets NFPA standards.

There are red high temperature RTA silicones used sometimes for sealing seams but they have their differing temperature ratings and time limits - concerned you might have a serious situation (exhaust temps too high for example, now or in the past), please do get a professional certified chimney sweep in for a full inspection.

keithp
Re: red staining on chimney
keithp
Blue RidgeParkway wrote:

Get a Certified Chimney Sweep inspection (CSIA.ORG).

Flue vent what type different types of SS liners/chimineys. How is the stainless flue seperated from the chase and the original liner to prevent it from cooling, condensation, and allowing good draft? SS was a change? what was the old? Oil burner red clay tile?

That's a lot of debris. I'd be checking exchanger and/or damper. Don't see a cap on the masonry facade/chase. What are you doing for combustion air?

Forced air furnace or is it a boiler? What type/efficiency/size? How do you get heat your domestic hot water? Fuel burning appliance? how is that vented?

How was your replacement "liner" sized? Make sure you request that your chimney sweep calculates what you should have and that what you do have meets NFPA standards.

There are red high temperature RTA silicones used sometimes for sealing seams but they have their differing temperature ratings and time limits - concerned you might have a serious situation (exhaust temps too high for example, now or in the past), please do get a professional certified chimney sweep in for a full inspection.

The All-Fuel Chimney is a stand-alone double wall SS and the faux stoned chimney is built around it to only for looks .. it is not a lined stone chimney. There is a SS cap on the All-Fual chimney with no visible 'corrosion' so this does not appear to the the source of the red.

The chimney structure was built new in 2003 and the problem appeared shortly thereafter and has continued ever since.

Our furnace is an Carrier oil fired boiler tied into a hydro-air heating system.

There is no hi-temp silicone that I am aware of in the chimney system. I believe the All-Fuel is a twist/lock system and the Duravent outer walls are just screwed together.

The orginal contractor installed both the furnace and chimney .. after not being able to resolve the issue they walked away. Since than other chimney contractors say nothing is wrong with the chimney .. they say its the furnace. The furnace contractors say the furnace is fine and running great and with the Carrier specs ... it must be the chimney. One big cirle.

No one can even identify what the red is. Is it corroded metal from the SS All-Fuel chimney, corroded metal from the Simpson-Duravent DVL double wall smoke pipe (SS inner wall and galvanized outer wall) that connects the furnace to the All-Fuel chimney, iron from the furnace, uncombusted fuel and/or dye from the oil?

In my non-professional observation the source seems to be small particles that when it mixes with rain leaches the red .. without the water from dew or rain there would be no red on the outside of the chimney. See the small dark specs in the center of the 'top of chimney close up.jpg' photo.

Hope this info helps explain things a little better. Thanks for your feedback.

canuk
Re: red staining on chimney
canuk

Though I can't offer a definative answer to what the red material is and what's causing it .... there is an interesting article relating to red colored soot-coke possibly from the red dye.

article link : http://www.carpenterandsmith.com/fuel_dye.html

keithp
Re: red staining on chimney
keithp
canuk wrote:

Though I can't offer a definative answer to what the red material is and what's causing it .... there is an interesting article relating to red colored soot-coke possibly from the red dye.

article link : http://www.carpenterandsmith.com/fuel_dye.html

I appreciate the the article. It seems to point to the fuel but it does not mention how to resolve 'red roof' syndrome. I contacted Carpenter and Smith but they are only a co-op in NY and could not provide any further info about the article.

It seems the problem might be the red dye but I am still unsure on how to I fix this issue or how to procede. So any other thoughts or suggetions on this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

Blue RidgeParkway
Re: red staining on chimney
Blue RidgeParkway

keithp,

I would like to direct you to a discussion on a very reputable board which has much active participation by HVAC and boiler mechanic professionals which directly relates to your concerns.

Although you mentioned cleanliness you did not respond to concerns regarding oversized exaust, etc. There are other areas and temperature issues which can contribute to condensation as well as sooting (leaving fuel oil dye deposits).

Please review the thread string in its entirety, I believe you will find it addresses on point your concerns. Feel free to register and post on the linked forum but do be sure to revisit and respond as questions are asked there - the are a dedicated bunch and the group is well moderated - they welcome questions from home owners.

primary web site: http://www.heatinghelp.com

specific forum string on topic: http://forums.invision.net/Thread.cfm?CFID=5909099&CFTOKEN=51a9f71-329a4fb6-d3d6-4a1c-9c4e-27448c21682c&CFApp=2&&Message_ID=426139&_#Message425748

The discussion was active December 5-8, 2008. If you decide to post there I suggest you start your own topic string, provide the details of your system and issue as well as reference the string I have directed you to.

keithp
Re: red staining on chimney
keithp
Blue RidgeParkway wrote:

keithp,

I would like to direct you to a discussion on a very reputable board which has much active participation by HVAC and boiler mechanic professionals which directly relates to your concerns.

Although you mentioned cleanliness you did not respond to concerns regarding oversized exaust, etc. There are other areas and temperature issues which can contribute to condensation as well as sooting (leaving fuel oil dye deposits).

Please review the thread string in its entirety, I believe you will find it addresses on point your concerns. Feel free to register and post on the linked forum but do be sure to revisit and respond as questions are asked there - the are a dedicated bunch and the group is well moderated - they welcome questions from home owners.

primary web site: http://www.heatinghelp.com

specific forum string on topic: http://forums.invision.net/Thread.cfm?CFID=5909099&CFTOKEN=51a9f71-329a4fb6-d3d6-4a1c-9c4e-27448c21682c&CFApp=2&&Message_ID=426139&_#Message425748

The discussion was active December 5-8, 2008. If you decide to post there I suggest you start your own topic string, provide the details of your system and issue as well as reference the string I have directed you to.

Thank you very much for the information .. I will look into it and see where it gets me.

Blue RidgeParkway
Re: red staining on chimney
Blue RidgeParkway
keithp wrote:

Thank you very much for the information .. I will look into it and see where it gets me.

You're welcome.

You'll find it enlightening I think.

Oh, I think you were asking about a temperature response control earlier, don't think you'll do well lowering the boiler temp outputs during the warmer days during the heating season with the hydroair with out a lot of changes, they usually require pretty hot temps before they'll activate the blower- don't think you'd like the results even if you did manage to tweak it all out and get it to run with lower temps in the coil -- comfort wise, don't think you'd get very effective heating - although my experience with a similar system much older than yours and many years ago.

keithp
Re: red staining on chimney
keithp

I have been actively pursuing the various suggestions offered. During my research I have found I am not the only person with this issue:

1) A local chimney contractor has seen many cases of 'red staining' issues .. he claims it is not the chimney deteriorating but is unsure of the source of the red.

2) Selkirk (a chimney manufacurer) had enough inquiries that they worked with a lab and believe the red is a result of the sulfer in the oil and/or corrosion caused by the sulfer. However even good quality oil has sulfer.

3) I reviewed the web site thread and pursued its leads but got no solution:

primary web site: http://www.heatinghelp.com
specific forum string on topic: http://forums.invision.net/Thread.cf...#Message425748

4) Several major full oil service companies in RI have of yet been able to resolve this issue.

5) Carrier believes it is not there boiler and have tried to wash their hands of the matter.

6) Beckett has seen similar 'red' issues but is unsure how to resolve my problem.

I am actively working with my present oil service company .. they have been very cooperative and want as much as I do to find out how to resolve this issue.

To summarize where I am today, I find small 'black' non-magnetic specs around the smoke pipe a top my boiler and on my roof. The specs location seem to imply they are generated in the boiler and thus eliminate the chimney component. The specs get blown out the top of the chimney flue when the boiler is on, end up on the top of the roof and lip of the chimney and then the morning dew adds enough moisture to leach the red from the spec. The flue cap is not dripping red so this does not seem to be a chimney flue condensation issue.

So .. I am still looking for a solution. The source seems to be the black specs. My thoughts are reducing the sulfer content of the oil or a better burn of the fuel in the boiler might be a step in the right direction. But I am not sure how to do either of these things?

Suggestions are always welcome and thanks for any feed back.

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