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Mastercarpentry
Re: Poor roof installation
Mastercarpentry

DJ1 is correct, you're going to need the entire roof redone. But at this point you need to be contacting your attorney who will know what steps you should take from here. Also contact your insurance company informing them to not pay this crook anything. And you need to document everything- the damages done, along with pics of the improper work (including the short-nailing in several places to prove it was a crew-wide problem and not just one guy) from many areas of the roof. Write down all of what was said including when and where that happened. If possible get the local building code inspector to come out and issue you a letter or non-compliance listing the specific violations. This roofer doesn't have a leg to stand on but expect him to try to obtain payment anyway.

Tell your lawyer to go for the jugular- if what you say is accurate, then this guy is a crook, pure and simple, and I don't like having someone like that involved anywhere in my industry because it makes me look bad even being a thousand miles away from there. Let him try to find a new life selling used cars afterward- at least then people will know better than to trust him!

Phil

A. Spruce
Re: Poor roof installation
A. Spruce

IMHO, the BBB and Angie's List are about as worthless as . . . well, let's just say they don't account for much. In the case of the BBB, as long as the contractor pays their membership dues, the BBB doesn't really care, and if the contractor isn't a member of the BBB, even less concern is given. Angie's List, as well as all the other "contractor verification" sites out there are equally worthless because they only cover contractors that are either members or that have been recommended by contributors of the organization, and what are the odds you're going to find someone on your own that just happens to be associated with these organizations? Pretty slim.

The only organization that may have any interest of power would be your local contractor governing body. Most states have some sort of contractor licensing requirements in place, and when the populace lodges complaints they usually look into them to find out where the fault is and penalize the contractors who are operating, shall we say, less than above board.

You definitely need to take all your information and documentation on the matter to an attorney to find out what your rights are here. The fact that there was no contract is a scary thought, your rights drop significantly at this point, your saving grace should be the fact that the job was not done to code or to manufacturer's specs. Additionally, it sounds to me that there were way too many bodies involved on this project for at least one of them not to have been a licensed contractor, which means that they could be held liable for the poor workmanship. While I don't believe in attaching blame to those who do not deserve it, the details that you have laid out here seem to suggest that no one on the side of the "contractor" felt inclined to do the job they were hired to do properly.

I would also add that if you've paid this guy nothing yet, and he's willing to walk away and not address the issues, that he already knows he's in the wrong and that he could be in big trouble for operating without a license, insurance, liability bonding, etc. As we've said, consult an attorney to figure out your rights and how to move forward.

keith3267
Re: Poor roof installation
keith3267

I don't think we should be calling this roofer, or any contractor a crook without hearing their side of the story first.

dj1
Re: Poor roof installation
dj1

Keith, if the roofer doesn't respond on this forum, how can we find out "the rest of the story?"

llmotoll
Re: Poor roof installation
llmotoll
even wrote:

llmotoll where was it that I said we knew what we were getting into and that we knew he wasn't a top notch roofer? You obviously missed the point that much of the roof has to be torn off to meet city code. Obviously, I would not pay for that kind of work even if he had to pay for the shingles he put on incorrectly.

And how would we know he was anything other than a top notch roofer? He has a very expensive, impressive trailer with his logo, beautiful artwork on his business cards. I did my due diligence and found nothing negative about him at BBB or Angie's List. Another architect vouched for him. One would have to be super suspicious to think he was anything but quality.

In addition, I forgot to mention that one of the roofers mentioned he had not used the proper number of nails on each shingle.

No contract. Pretty much sums it up right there.

You keep calling out all these issues which I'm sure do exist. However, according to the verbal agreement to replace the roof, he fulfilled his end of the bargain.

Mastercarpentry
Re: Poor roof installation
Mastercarpentry
llmotoll wrote:

No contract. Pretty much sums it up right there.

You keep calling out all these issues which I'm sure do exist. However, according to the verbal agreement to replace the roof, he fulfilled his end of the bargain.

Not to be argumentative, but since he did not replace the roof correctly as required by the shingle manufacturer and building codes then he did NOT hold up his end of the deal. Sure, there's new shingles up there but it's not a proper or even legal roof so that becomes irrelevant. Only when the work is done correctly does it count.

Not bashing the guy but if what the OP says is true (and I've seen nothing to indicate otherwise) then this 'roofer' needs bashing to have gotten so many things wrong. It wasn't a simple mistake in doing the work, this was an idiot going far beyond their capabilities, and God only knows why he did!

Phil

llmotoll
Re: Poor roof installation
llmotoll

All of my posts here on this forum have been in an effort to help. Not interested in misleading anyone or insulting anyone.
Based on the information provided by "even" they need to pay this contractor in full or at least a large portion of the verbally agreed amount. This situation will not end well for "even" they will pay far more at a later date than if they just settle up now and let the original installer go on his way. "even" can move forward with repair/replacement with another contractor.

The fact of the matter as stated by "even" the contractor purchased a permit. Showing intent to do the work as verbally agreed. This is KEY in his defense and the only legal paperwork proof of agreement between the home owner and contractor. He can take the home owner to court and he will win and the home owner is likely to pay his attorney fees as well. Plus the home owner will now have to pay the other contractors involved.

even wrote:

He did take out a permit with the Planning Department. We did not have a contract.

You can point out all the issues and problems you want with his work. But you will lose in court.

There are many ways you could approach the situation. It is ultimately up to you how you want to do that. Maybe some harsh things have already taken place and bridges have been burned. I do not know. But if can reach out to him and provide a defined scope of work (written contract) pay him 60% of what you owe him and ask him if he signs this agreement and makes the corrections as listed in the contract you would be willing to pay the remaining balance.

As far as getting other roofing contractors involved. This is a mistake. Any other roofing contractor is going to literally tear this guys work apart. They are going to come up with all sorts of things that should have been done a different way. All that is going to do is muddy the water and make things more difficult.
You need to hire a Roof Consultant with at least an RRO "Registered Roof Observer" certification. They are a dime a dozen. Google it, find one in your area. You will have to pay for the inspection. But this is something that no roofing contractor will be able to argue with or dispute. And you know it is reliable information and it is something that truly does need to be fixed rather than taking a competitors word for it.

Just my $0.02

llmotoll
Re: Poor roof installation
llmotoll
Mastercarpentry wrote:

Not to be argumentative, but since he did not replace the roof correctly as required by the shingle manufacturer and building codes then he did NOT hold up his end of the deal. Sure, there's new shingles up there but it's not a proper or even legal roof so that becomes irrelevant. Only when the work is done correctly does it count.

Not bashing the guy but if what the OP says is true (and I've seen nothing to indicate otherwise) then this 'roofer' needs bashing to have gotten so many things wrong. It wasn't a simple mistake in doing the work, this was an idiot going far beyond their capabilities, and God only knows why he did!

Phil

I'll take the challenge and debate the matter and play devils advocate with you Phil. Here would be my replies to your statements if I were the original roofing contractor.

" [Phil]did not replace the roof correctly as required by the shingle manufacturer" The manufacture is not providing a labor, hail damage, algae or wind uplift warranty on this project. This is a material only warranty. The manufacture has provided recommended details for installation yet following the manufacture specifications are just that "recommended" Not a requirement. We have followed industry standards as established over my 25 yrs in the business. We would be more than happy to provide you with a proven track record of references from the past 20+ years that reinforce our established installation practices.

"[Phil] building codes" We provided you with a cost plus ADD to base bid which you refused during our price negotiations. I told you we would be obtaining a permit from the Planning Department. At that point anything not done per building code is on you.
We install roofs everyday that are not to code. And everyone of those roofs have it written in the contract that the home owner was quoted a roof per code and if refused it would be the homeowners responsibility. This was a verbal agreement and was discussed in the very beginning.

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