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Re: Permanent Siding Paint

"In our video they are talking about going over rot". If we are watching the same video, they are talking about the entire painting process, not just rot treatment, including a very thorough preparation process. I stand by my statement that any job with such thorough preparation and premium paint would perform well.

The paints and primers with which I am familiar and deal are made by Rohm and Hass, the largest and premier manufacturer of resins for the paint industry.

"The higher the solids in a paint the better" - within reason, true. I would like to see you apply a 100% solids paint :) Paint formulation is a branch of chemistry unto itself. It is the water that evaporates, the solidified, polymerized resins and pigments remain.

I would agree that Sherwin Williams Duration is greatly over rated, as are many of Benjamin Moore's products. A major national brand does not assure top qualty. Duration ranks far down the list on Consumer Reports rankings.

The products with which I am familiar use only 100% titanium dioxide as the pigment, no cheap filler pigments. The resin is 100% acrylic from Rohm and Hass. The resin utilizes nano technology. You can't get much smaller than billionths of a meter! It is the nano particles, which are also metalic, which give it its' tremendous adhesive qualities along with the ability to be self-priming. And all this for only $32 to $36 per gallon!

I stand by my opinion - you are selling a premium paint job with really thorough preparation and premium paint at a really PREMIUM price. At such a high premium price ,you are amortizing the occasional failure! Or are you telling us that you have never had a call back or failure?

I will admit my bias as a former contractor with over fifty years in the painting field and a family painting history going back to 1907 in this country, an even earlier to Denmark, where my grandfather learned his trade.


Re: Permanent Siding Paint

All I am saying is that we too have a Premium Product here. Compared to typical paints, we will blow them away. With your extensive background, you must know that most paints on the market are garbage, yet every day thousands of people are painting their homes with garbage paints, that will fail. Consumer Reports is a paid service. If you pay them your rating will go up. That was proven when BEHR stopped paying and fell from #1 to off the chart. I don't place much credence in them.
Our pricing structure is fair. We are selling a great product at a great price.
Bottom line~ Why are people so ready to be negative about a product that they don't know about? Average homeowner is ok with spending thousands of dollars every 5 years to re-paint the exterior of their homes. On a side note, I am looking at tires for my truck. BF Goodrich cost about $850 for 4 tires. They last about 35k miles. Michelin tires are $1050 for four, they last up to 70k miles....I'm buying the more expensive tires for my truck, because they will last longer!;)

Re: Permanent Siding Paint

According to Consumers Reports website,"We are a non-profit organization that is supported by the subscription to our website and magazine. To maintain our independance, we do not accept any outside advertising and any free test samples".
Perhaps you are confusing CR with the Better Business Bureau, which recently was left with egg on its face over shakedowns over ratings.

Behr Interior Ultra paints have captured CR's top rating in every sheen category in their most recent testing cycle.

Behr Exterior Ultra paints have not yet been rated, as CR's testing period is lengthy. Behr's Nano technology is relatively new. I have personally read the patent applcation.

Pure acrylic paints are by their nature very permeable. That is why later generation acrylics have been a quantum leap over oil paints, at least as pertains to exterior coatings. I will accept your ratings as to permeability.

Again, the main question is as to value. I still maintain that a premium paint job with proper preparation and use of premium acylic paint would have a far longer life cycle than the 3 to 5 years you continue to state. With the disparity in price, one would have to be a long term homeowner to regain value. The average american homeownere typically moves every 7 years.
Is your quarantee transferable?

Re: Permanent Siding Paint

Is your quarantee transferable?[/QUOTE]

Yes, and we guarantee both Labor and materials. You can recoup the cost of our coatings in less than 7 years average.

Re: Permanent Siding Paint


You should read your "limited Lifetime Warranttee", as posted on your website, which states, "...is warranted for as long as you own your home". Nowhere does it state it tranferable.

Just what is "limited" in your "lifetime" warrantee?

Re: Permanent Siding Paint

Paid $20K+ in 2007 for this product applied over cedar clapboards. Started peeling, particularly on south side surfaces in 2nd year. Called the application company to place a (lifetime) warranty claim and was told it was sold to a new owner who would not take responsibility for warranty work due to the original owner's clients. Called the paint factory directly in NC and was told they too had been bought by a new owner who assumed no responsibility for jobs associated with the previous owner. Called the previous owner and got no return callback. Imagine my surprise.

Moral: I should have paid the $10K for a standard paint job by a reputable firm and probably would be paying the second $10K in about 2014 for a new application. Remember, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

Re: Permanent Siding Paint

I am not going to argue the merits of either side here because it comes down to personal integrity. A bad product dome well sometimes can outlast a good product done badly.

However, when I returned from a tour of duty in Japan in 1976, I painted the trim on my father in law's house with Sears Best paint (at that time, don't remember the name they used). I did it all in brush, two good thick coats and a third coat on the outermost facia boards that took most of the weather. It did not have any visible deterioration until about 5 years ago. The house is in Memphis, TN.

Kevengunn, it appears to me that you are taking ordjen's comments as a personal attack and it does not appear to me that he meant them that way. It sounds like he is a very good paint contractor and it also sounds to me that you and your product are also very good, but both of you guy's are in an industry that is full of people that I'm sure do not meet your high standards.

I am currently painting the trim on my daughters new house in Mississippi because the builders contractor used cheap paint and did a less than adequate job. I am trying to get ahead of the curve before any damage occurs. Its a new subdivision and I wish her neighbors would paint their houses too, most already look older and shabbier than they should, but with the economy, most are just trying to make the mortgage payments.

Tacoma John
Re: Permanent Siding Paint

Looking at the high cost of application, and the conditions they put on siding conditions, I agree with Ordjen. I have checked out houses that I have painted with Kelly-Moore 1245 paint 10 years ago, minus dirt showing on white gutters, they look as good as the day I painted them. The 1245 paint also comes with a lifetime warrentee. Twice this year I have walked away from bidding homes because of siding and water barrier issues. Good siding + good prep + good paint = at least 15 years before repaint. PS Vinyl siding also promises no painting, look at houses that have had vinyl siding for over ten years. They tend to be baddly chalked and stained.

Re: Permanent Siding Paint

Ordjen is very knowledgeable in this area and my own thoughts and experiences reflect his except on certain brands and types of paint- those are usually a place where even pros will disagree to some extent.

Except for new construction, any coating's bond is only as good as the coating underneath it. That, and the service of warranted work where needed, is what varies most and that equally affects both products. I have never seen a properly applied quality paint fail of it's own accord, though sun and time has caused color fading in some, and weather erosion of the surface has reduced the aesthetic life of others but this isn't at all common here in SC, even with all our storms and wind and humidity and hot summer sun.

The only advantage of the newer 'lifetime' coating seems to be it's thickness, which is not much of an issue as best I can tell. I've never seen a painted coating fail by becoming too thin over time. The other claimed 'advantages' are at least closely met by our current best-quality paints, if not actually equalled.

Most of us who have spent our working lives in construction fields have learned to be skeptical of new things because few of the numerous new ideas we have seen actually live up to their claims or are inferior in some other less obvious way. Most of those changes have been in cost-cutting measures instead of trying to create a better product.

With all that in mind I'll wait a long time before I recommend these 'permanent' coatings. I know what to expect from what I use and feel it is a very good deal. When I see that level of satisfaction is exceeded by something else then I will change my mind- not one minute sooner.


Re: Permanent Siding Paint

I would like to add my two sense here. I was also dubious of the 25 year or life time warranty. I am a painting contractor and one of my more meticulous clients contracted me to paint his historic home.He knew he wanted us because we had a reputation for sanding down old homes and keeping the integrity of the wood. His only stipulation was that we use permanent paint. He told me the life span and I laughed. I told him in 21 years in painting homes i know nothing lasts that long. After the work was done i realized some of the neighbors had used this product 10 years before. So i went to the home to inspect. Those visits changed my entire view of the paint industry. The house had zero peeling and looked like it was painted 1 year ago. I did not believe it so I went back to the house several times to try to catch the owners at home. finally after the third visit I caught the homeowner. He proceeded to tell me he got the house painted ten years ago and that since he moved into the house using the permanent solution was the best decision he has made in the time he owned the home.
What was even more amazing to me was the the home was not prepped well. The prep job was poor not at all to our standards but it had no peeling and the finish still had great sheen. I have spent days prepping, sanding and priming and painting only to have paint jobs fail in a few years because the regular paint products are so poor today. I am in the process of changing the entire way we paint homes, we will use permanent paint from now on. I am tired of working really hard prepping only to have a disappointed client a few years down the road.


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