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Ernie_Fergler
Re: outlets and junction box
jkirk wrote:

i think we found our new lionhearted....

if i remember correctly, a max of 12 ' apart for outlets within dwelling spaces such as living rooms and bedrooms,

for kitchens, there must be a recepticle every 4ft of counter space. and they must be a gfci if within 3' of a water source

the simples way to ask the original question is to say how many outlets + lights can be on one circuit without overloading

by having outlets closer together, obviously you will create more outlets which in turn means more circuits at the panel. by not knowing how many outlets you can have on a circuit and not knowing how to check how many are on it could create a risk of fire or overloading a panel. Which has happened, i know this not by google but from electricians i know who have seen it first hand and had to rewire entire houses after it has happened

when it comes to do it yourself projects there are limits to which diy'ers should go, when personal saftey and put the building at risk of fire, flooding, severe structural damage consult or hire a professional. looking things up online can help but there is no way of knowing the persons crudentials are true. theres nothing more assuring than having a certified Professional in your home, directly looking at what you want done.

I tend to agree with what you are posting. But it has been my experience when homeowners run short of outlets they use extension cords. Like those crappy 18 gauge brown or white useless items. Now that is what I want heating up my carpets. :eek:

Blue RidgeParkway
Re: outlets and junction box
Ernie_Fergler wrote:

Sorry, but if you have to ask that, please hire a professional.

Ernie_Fergler wrote:

Sorry, but I have to disagree with your 6' rule that allows outlets to be 12' apart.

Blue RidgeParkway wrote:

The rule is a 12 foot rule for unbroken (by openings) walls for general purpose receptacles in dwelling units (residential occupancies) and six feet from openings in walls.
210.52 is the article in the NEC that addresses this. There are closer spacings required for countertops and there are special rules and exceptions for special areas (foyers, hallways and bathrooms for example). The language changes depending upon the edition. Local ammendments can also alter the language. The original poster indicates he is in Wisconsin (location information on his profile).
If you don't agree with the code who cares? You are allowed to have more frequent spacing, the code is a minimum requirement, it is NOT a design manual, and therefore it does not have any requirements for convenient receptacle placement. This is all up to the designer.
The spacing is determined along a wall not an arc. Arcs, radius, etc. are used to determine proximity to hazards, for example the area near a sink that must be GFCI protected, etc. not in frequency or spacing of general purpose receptacles that is done by straight measurements where the wall meets the floor measured horizontally linear measurements at the floor so that no point on the wall is more than six feet from a receptacle. A sliding glass DOOR is not a wall it is an opening in the wall.

Ernie_Fergler wrote:

I can't fathom spacing outlets 12' apart. Nor would local inspectors allow it.
Say you place table lamp 1 at an outlet. Table lamp 2 will be placed 12' away. Even if you would drag those two lamps together they are six feet away from each other. Not to mention placing a Wave radio or small TV in between the two lamps. How would that fit into all that and still be energized?.

Ernie_Fergler wrote:

I tend to agree with what you are posting. But it has been my experience when homeowners run short of outlets they use extension cords. Like those crappy 18 gauge brown or white useless items. Now that is what I want heating up my carpets

Excuses excuses! Not until the code is not only cited, but quoted, and you still continue to make up excuses do you finally admit your unfathomable lack of comprehension was your own personal shortcoming and are forced to admit you were wrong, but....you then again make up another wild
excuse to dispute the code and justify your having been wrong, and your initial curt reply to the original poster on this string, good thing he didn't call upon YOU (self proclaimed "professional" electrician on your profile and on many posts) for assistance! ROAR!!

By the way, the reference to an "18 gauge" extension cord was just ... RICH!! Stop already "Ernie_Fergler", you're embarassing yourself.

A. Spruce
Re: outlets and junction box

More accurately, RICH!! Stop already "Blue RidgeParkway", you're embarassing yourself.

:rolleyes:

djohns
Re: outlets and junction box

ROAR ? How appropriate . :cool:

goldhiller
Re: outlets and junction box
canuk
Re: outlets and junction box
Blue RidgeParkway wrote:

You jump in with "if I remember correctly" after two of us already stated what the code was and I even QUOTED IT. You didn't "remember" anything about the National Electrical Code canadian.

YOU obviously have no idea what you are talking about! Overloading a circuit has nothing to do anything hinted at by the OPs question, and has nothing to do with the number of receptacles or other outlets allowed on a general branch circuit for a dwelling. Your trying to stretch into the small appliance circuit territory, dedicated circuits and lighting circuits in a Kitchen in the US in an area governed by adoption of the NEC is equally lame, ignorant and flawed. Circuit overload protection has nothing to do with the number or frequency of the placement of outlets and nothing to do with the fill capacity allowed for junction boxes.

Stick to fly dumping and sharing your parent's basement "apartment" with your brother.

Well ...... jkirk is correct in saying there is a limit .... at least up here.

The maximum over-current device permitted for

lights and receptacles is 15 amperes (fuse or circuit

breaker) and a maximum of 12 receptacles or

lights or a combination of lights and

receptacles ...... may be connected to each 15

ampere branch circuit.

He was also correct in saying .... 12 feet is the maximum spacing between receptacles

canuk
Re: outlets and junction box
Blue RidgeParkway wrote:

Unless its a local rule/ammendment that's just bogus. Name the jurisdiction, inspector and citation. Your not being able to fathom the general Code rule for regular dwelling units, I'll reserve comment. I'll also reserve comment on your personal attacks as well as your "belief" system(s). However, regarding the NEC you are not interpreting nor applying the the minimum rule correctly.

Receptacles 12' apart allow for no point on the wall being greater than 6' from a receptacle: that's the NEC rule. Wisconsin uses the NEC. Portable Lamps (UL 153) have cords, if your cord is too short get an extension or replace the cord with a longer one. If you want a 3rd lamp closer to your lamp 1 location than you can accomodate by pluging it into receptacle 2 location, plug it into the same outlet location as your lamp 1, duplex receptacles are the norm. Your decorating concerns aside, the code is a minimum rule. It is not a design nor a decorating guide.

Extension cords should only be considered as temporary use .... anything outside of that is irresponsible to suggest otherwise.

canuk
Re: outlets and junction box

So ... would this be allowed?

The red points are the receptacle placements,

Fencepost
Re: outlets and junction box

No, canuk, not as I interpret the code requirements. There is a 2 foot range along your walls that is between 6 and 7 feet from the nearest outlet (no, my math isn't funny), which is not permissible. Now, if on the long wall the outlet was only 10 feet from the corner, that WOULD be permissible. Four feet from the corner along the long wall is 6 feet from the outlet on the short wall.

Another poster lamented that the inspector made him place a floor outlet between two sliding glass doors. This is because the fixed panels of the doors are considered usable wall space and hence must have an outlet within reach. You are not permitted to cross a doorway or opening to reach an outlet in order to meet the coed requirements. In my opinion, his inspector had a correct interpretation of the code. Now if that poster had arranged the doors so the sliding panels were adjacent, no floor outlet would have been necessary.

canuk, do they use the NEC in Canada, too, or does Canada have its own code? I know that the electrical system is nearly identical to that in the US.

Gray Watson
Re: outlets and junction box
scottgolf wrote:

I am wiring a new interior wall, how many outlets am I allowed off a junction box?

Since you're in Wisconsin, you have no limits to the number of outlets you can have off a general use branch circuit if it is a residential application as long as you compensate for any voltage drop regarding the overall distance of the circuit. Wisconsin uses NFPA 70 the National Electrical Code.

If you have additional questions and would prefer to not use the public nature of posting on an open string scottgolf, you are welcome to Private message myself or any member on the forum who makes that feature available to forum members. Your best first resource for up-to-date information and any local ammendments or restrictions is your local building officials or in code-speak "authority having jurisdiction". They should be able to give you a comprehensive list of adopted uniform national codes and a list of any ammendments. Oftentimes your local public library will have these code resource materials in their reference section.

As I understand the Canadian codes they may have limitations (as do we in the States in commercial but we don't in residential); however Candian Code/Rules are not applicable in the State of Wisconsin.

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