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mase
new switch and fan

I want to install a new ceiling fan and light where there isn't one now. I have a wall switch that controls an outlet. I want to run the new light off of a new switch at the wall and have the fan controlled by the pull chain. The wall switch I want to tie into has 1 black and 1 white wire coming in (no ground). I wired the in the 2 switches and power at all connections in the box but the wall outlet is not woking. I haven't put up the new fan yet until I get the wiring correct. Where am I going wrong?

white-white

incoming black pigtailed to the bottom **** connections on each switch

outgoing black to top **** connection of switch closest to door

red to top **** connection on switch away from door

ongoing ground to ground on switch farthest from door
no incoming ground from walloutlet

canuk
Re: new switch and fan
mase wrote:

I want to install a new ceiling fan and light where there isn't one now. I have a wall switch that controls an outlet. I want to run the new light off of a new switch at the wall and have the fan controlled by the pull chain. The wall switch I want to tie into has 1 black and 1 white wire coming in (no ground). I wired the in the 2 switches and power at all connections in the box but the wall outlet is not woking. I haven't put up the new fan yet until I get the wiring correct. Where am I going wrong?

white-white

incoming black pigtailed to the bottom **** connections on each switch

outgoing black to top **** connection of switch closest to door

red to top **** connection on switch away from door

ongoing ground to ground on switch farthest from door
no incoming ground from walloutlet

A little more information is needed --- you say the receptacle is not working. Was only half of the receptacle controlled by the switch and the other half constantly live ? You say the receptacle is not working --- only the switched half or both halves ?

Let's back up before you add the second switch --- what color wires and how many were in the switch box that controlled the receptacle ? How was the switch wired --- with what color wires ?
This information will help providing you information how to wire things up.

mase
Re: new switch and fan

There are 2 wires coming into the switch box- a black and a white(no ground). The switch controlled bothh outlets.

canuk
Re: new switch and fan

Alright -- the white and black are the supply and switched lines from and to the receptacle. Normally the white ( re-identified with black tape or black felt marker ) will be the constant supply with the black being the *switched * wire that would go to the receptacle.

It seems you mistakenly thought the *white* is a neutral which it is not. By disconnecting the white wire from the switch you have no supply current feeding the switch.

Now -- the problem with your future plan you currently don't have a * neutral * available in the switch box to go to the light/fan.

mase
Re: new switch and fan

So are you telling me that with the current setup there isn't a way to keep the current switch working the outlet and installing a switch for the ceiling fan light. If it caan be done would you please describe the wiring for me.

canuk
Re: new switch and fan

Based on the information you provided ...........
You can have the receptacle working if wired back to the way it was orginally to the switch.
You can also supply current to the other switch by a pigtail ( or jumper ) to control the new light -- however -- there is one more wire needed at the switch box a * neutral * ( which is not present ) to connect the fan/light.

Now-- if you want to have the receptacle live constantly ( not controlled by the switch ) then the wiring can be reconfigured to accomodate the new addition of the fan/light.

mase
Re: new switch and fan

O.K. Lets leave the outlet hot all the time and do away with the switch for the outlet. Now can we reconfigure the wiring for me to run the ceiling fan/light off of the switch or switches.

Nestor
Re: new switch and fan

Mase:

In house wiring, power is supplied by three wires coming into your house; two "hot" wires and a neutral wire. The hot wires will have black and red insulation on them, and the neutral wire will have white insulation on it. Although technically incorrect, a helpful way to think of it is that the power comes from the generating station along the black and red wires, and goes back to the generating station along the white wire.

In order to do what you want, you have to connect your fan and light between one of the hot wires and the neutral wire. That way power flows into your fan from the black or red wire, goes through the fan and goes back to the generating station along the white wire.

What Canuk is saying (and I agree) is that you don't have a white neutral wire in your switch box.

What you have is a power cable going to your outlet box. That power cable has both a hot wire and a white neutral wire in it. If the hot wire went to one side of the outlet and the white neutral wire went to the other side of the outlet, you'd have power in that outlet all of the time. Instead, the electrician that wired your house decided that it would be advantageous to be able to turn the power on and off to that outlet. That way you could plug a lamp into that outlet, leave the switch on the lamp in the "On" position, and turn the lamp on and off with the wall switch. So, instead of connecting the hot wire in the power cable to the outlet, he connected it to the black wire going to your switch. The white wire coming from your switch then connects to the side of the outlet so that you can use the switch to turn power to the outlet on and off.

So, the white wire in your switch box is not a neutral wire despite the colour of it's insulation. By rights, it should be another black wire in that switch box indicating that both wires can be carrying 120 VAC power if the switch is in the ON position. But, they don't make two conductor cables with both conductors having black insulation. Two conductor cables come with one wire having black insulation and one wire having white insulation. So, when you put a switch in the circuit to the outlet, you necessarily have to run 120 volt power through both the wire going to the switch and the wire coming from it. In this case, the wire coming from the switch has white insulation. Normally, neutral wires have white insulation, so that's why a previous poster said that in this kind of situation, the electrician that did the wiring should have marked that white wire at both ends with black electrical tape or a black felt pen indicating that it's NOT a neutral wire despite the colour of the insulation.

So, really, the wires you're wanting to use are the hot wire (which will have black or red insulation) and the white neutral wire that are in the power cable going to your outlet box. And, I suspect that you'll probably find that it'd be better just to run a new power cable from your electrical panel to provide power for your fan and light than it would be to tap power off the cable going to your electrical outlet.

I have a thing I wrote up that explains the basics of house wiring; both 120 volt and 240 volt. If you want it, I can either post it in here or e-mail it to you.

Hope this helps.

canuk
Re: new switch and fan

Alrighty -- without having to run any new wires .........

Shut the breaker off for this circuit .

You will have to remove that receptacle which was controlled by the switch.

There should be the white which goes to the switch wire nutted to some black wires --- the black wire from the switch is connected to the receptacle.

Remove the black wire from the receptacle. Cut a short pigtail of black wire and connect to the recptacle. Wire nut all the black wires together.

Remove the white wire that is wire nutted with the black wires. You will see another white wire connected to the receptacle ( perhaps 2 )
If there is only one white wire connected to the receptacle then connect that disconnected white wire from the switch to the available screw connector on the receptacle.

Otherwise if 2 white wires are already attached to the receptacle --- remove one --- cut a short white wire pigtail and connect one end to the receptacle. Then join the other end with the two other white wires with a wire nut.

What you will end up with is constant supply current ( black ) and a neutral ( white ) available at the switch box.

From there connect things the way you had before.

Hopefully this makes sense and helps.:)

mase
Re: new switch and fan

Thank You for your help. I'll get into it tomorrow and hopefully I can make it work.

canuk
Re: new switch and fan

You're welcome -- post back and let us know how you make out.:cool:

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