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Ernie_Fergler
Re: MWBC & GFCI question
Lloyd wrote:

I don't think you will get too many trips with a gfi outlet. A gfi breaker however will probably not work well. Its not ideal but it should be ok.

I too wonder aloud about false trips with a GFCI outlet. But it would be worth a try to find out.:)

kttyracing
Re: MWBC & GFCI question

Thanks, guys!

Once I get it wired up and start using it, I'll post back on whether it seems to trip more often than one would expect.

If it >does<, then the next step - and probably ideal solution - would be to put it on a different 20A circuit, right? Because it is in the kitchen, I just assume I don't have the option of just putting a regular outlet in.

Somewhat unrelated - according to NEC, should the outlet that the dishwasher & disposal are plugged into be a GFCI as well?

Again - thank you, gentlemen, for your help.

JLMCDANIEL
Re: MWBC & GFCI question

The NEC requires GFCI for outlets servicing the counter tops in the kitchen, GCFI is not required for under counter outlets such as for a GD or DW. There is also an exception fro the outlet serving the refrigerator.
Jack

kttyracing
Re: MWBC & GFCI question
JLMCDANIEL wrote:

The NEC requires GFCI for outlets servicing the counter tops in the kitchen, GCFI is not required for under counter outlets such as for a GD or DW. There is also an exception fro the outlet serving the refrigerator.
Jack

Sweet! One less thing to do. Much obliged, sir.

Ernie_Fergler
Re: MWBC & GFCI question

Depending on exactly where the outlet is located in the kitchen will decide if you need a GFCI or not.
NEC 210.8{A}{6} Receptacles installed to serve countertop surfaces must be GFCI protected.
210.11{C}{1} All receptacles in kitchen area must be on a 20 amp circuit.
210.52{B}{3} Minimum of two 20 amp circuits required to supply kitchen countertop circuits.
2008 NEC 406.11 All 15 & 20 amp 120 v receptacle outlets in dwelling units must be listed tamper resistant.
2008 NEC 210.12{B} All 15 & 20 amp 120v outlets in dining rooms and eating areas must be AFCI protected. {Not required in kitchens, though.}
Got all that? :D
And no, the DW & GD do not go on a GFCI.....

kttyracing
Re: MWBC & GFCI question
Ernie_Fergler wrote:

Got all that? :D

I DO, actually. :D Although 2008 NEC 406.11 kind of throws me for a loop, since I haven't been installing tamper resistant devices as I go along. It seemed unnecessary since I do not have (nor have any intention of having!) kids, and am not, personally, very inclined to stick forks and such in outlets...

BUT... got it all wired up, subjected it to a typical load (i.e. turned on all the lights & fans, plugged in some small stuff to the outside outlets and then fired up my circular saw and drill) to see if the GFCI would trip and it didn't. Not sure if that proves anything, but it seems happy enough.

Schveet! Now I can move on to my >next< wiring project - upgrading my recessed lighting from non-IC to IC cans so I can put more insulation in my attic before it gets too hot here in AZ.

One more time - thanks, everyone, for the help.

Ernie_Fergler
Re: MWBC & GFCI question

Tamper resistant outlets became a NEC standard in different years depending on your state you reside in. {Plus any local codes that would be in the mix}. GFCIs have to meet the TR part as well. Somewhere a bean counter tallied up all the trips to ER wards from kids sticking the butter knife in an outlet.:eek:
Something to keep in mind.
Good to hear all is working well.:D
PS. Fire up a old chop saw with worn brushes on a AFCI protected circuit and see what happens. {Your little experiment should prove you have correctly wired your project.:D} But not much more, but that is fine too. Keep up the top notch work, you get a Gold Star on your exam.....

jvande7471
Re: MWBC & GFCI question
Ernie_Fergler wrote:

Tamper resistant outlets became a NEC standard in different years depending on your state you reside in. {Plus any local codes that would be in the mix}.

What is a tamper resistant outlet? I go to the hardware store and see piles of regular old 15A outlets for sale for about $1.

Are tamper resistant the ones with the plastic panel that slides over the recepticle so little fingers (knives, toys, gum wrappers, etc.) can't be inserted? Those things that make you swear when you're trying to plug a lamp into a socket behind the couch that you can't quite see and can't figure out why the damn thing won't plug in? :D

Ernie_Fergler
Re: MWBC & GFCI question
jvande7471 wrote:

What is a tamper resistant outlet? I go to the hardware store and see piles of regular old 15A outlets for sale for about $1.

Are tamper resistant the ones with the plastic panel that slides over the recepticle so little fingers (knives, toys, gum wrappers, etc.) can't be inserted? Those things that make you swear when you're trying to plug a lamp into a socket behind the couch that you can't quite see and can't figure out why the damn thing won't plug in? :D

Those are it !!!!!:D {Some brands do work better than others}.

Don't worry the second generation of TR outlets and GFCIs will work much better, methinks...As that requirement has be a state by state NEC enactment, you would think they would have a better product on the market by now. {I am relying on the Pass & Seymour website regarding the NEC enactment}.

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