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koony
LIghts will not shut off

In need of assistance.

Our living room had two wall sconces and I decided to remove them and use the same wiring for two recessed lights. The wires used in the wall for the sconces were pulled up into the attic and I attached the same wires to two recessed lights. One dimmer light switch controlled the sconces and of course it worked fine prior to me installing the recessed lights.

The fault must be the wiring I did on the two recessed lights are as nothing else was touched.

Lights will not shut off now.

Attached is the failed wire layout.

Thanks,
Dave

DougLanglois
Re: LIghts will not shut off
koony wrote:

In need of assistance.

Our living room had two wall sconces and I decided to remove them and use the same wiring for two recessed lights. The wires used in the wall for the sconces were pulled up into the attic and I attached the same wires to two recessed lights. One dimmer light switch controlled the sconces and of course it worked fine prior to me installing the recessed lights.

The fault must be the wiring I did on the two recessed lights are as nothing else was touched.

Lights will not shut off now.

Attached is the failed wire layout.

Thanks,
Dave

Note - I'm not an electrician, just a home handyman. This information is from past electronics schooling, which is not the same as being a qualified electrician. If you fry yourself following this advice, it's not my responsibility.

If the switch has no effect, then you've closed the circuit somehow before that point. Doesn't matter how, just disconnect and start again.

With power at the start of the run and switch at end of run, I believe you'll need 14/3 cable between the lights, not the existing 14/2. Otherwise the only way I see of having both those the fittings controlled by the same switch would be to have them in series, which is not ideal and probably out of code. You'd get a voltage drop across them and one would be dimmer than the other. Did you notice that with the sconces?

Assuming you run 14/3 between the lights, this is how they should be wired -

Right light - RL
Left light - LL
Power feed - PF
Switch - SW

At right light (RL) -

PF black to LL black. PF white to to LL white and RL white. LL Red to RL black.

At left light (LL) -

RL white to LL white. RL black to SW white. Re-designate SW white with black electrical tape. SW black to RL red and LL black .

At switch (SW) -

LL Black to one terminal LL white to other terminal. Re-designate white with electrical tape.

Connect all grounds in all boxes.

Assuming I didn't screw up, this puts the lights in parallel to each other, and puts both of them in series which the switch and the power.

If you want to use the existing wiring only, then it's possible but I doubt it's to code. I'd invest in a run of 14/3 and use the existing 14/2 to pull it through the wall.

JLMCDANIEL
Re: LIghts will not shut off

You are running the unswitched power to your lights. See if this helps.
Jack

Attachment: 
JLMCDANIEL
Re: LIghts will not shut off

Oh and by the way, it is possible with your current setup you may have blown the dimmer switch.
Jack

canuk
Re: LIghts will not shut off
koony wrote:

In need of assistance.

Our living room had two wall sconces and I decided to remove them and use the same wiring for two recessed lights. The wires used in the wall for the sconces were pulled up into the attic and I attached the same wires to two recessed lights. One dimmer light switch controlled the sconces and of course it worked fine prior to me installing the recessed lights.

The fault must be the wiring I did on the two recessed lights are as nothing else was touched.

Lights will not shut off now.

Attached is the failed wire layout.

Thanks,
Dave

There's no need for 14/3 to be used.
The problem with your current layout is you mistakenly wired the lights with constant power instead of going through the switch first --- the reason why they stay on.
As you can see with Jack's revised drawing the white at the switch needs to come from the supply hot feed in the attic --- black at the switch goes to the lights.This is likely how it was orginally wired with the wall sconces as well.

DougLanglois
Re: LIghts will not shut off
canuk wrote:

There's no need for 14/3 to be used.
The problem with your current layout is you mistakenly wired the lights with constant power instead of going through the switch first --- the reason why they stay on.
As you can see with Jack's revised drawing the white at the switch needs to come from the supply hot feed in the attic --- black at the switch goes to the lights.This is likely how it was orginally wired with the wall sconces as well.

Looked to me in the diagram that the power goes

Attic > Right light > Left light > switch

In which case surely this plan would require the power be re-routed? I was trying to work in the constrains of the original configuration as much as possible - i.e. multiple lights, power at start of run, switch at end of run. Is there a way to do that with no 14/3?

JLMCDANIEL
Re: LIghts will not shut off
DougLanglois wrote:

Looked to me in the diagram that the power goes

Attic > Right light > Left light > switch

In which case surely this plan would require the power be re-routed? I was trying to work in the constrains of the original configuration as much as possible - i.e. multiple lights, power at start of run, switch at end of run. Is there a way to do that with no 14/3?

Yes there is, but why replace the 14/2 with 14/3 when the original wiring worked but had apparently just been rerouted incorrectly?

Jack

Attachment: 
DougLanglois
Re: LIghts will not shut off
JLMCDANIEL wrote:

Yes there is, but why replace the 14/2 with 14/3 when the original wiring worked but had apparently just been rerouted incorrectly?

Jack

If they are easy to reroute, then go for it and do that. Makes the most sense. I was assuming that rerouting wasn't an option.

If the wiring had always been

attic > right light > left light > switch

Then the lights must have been in series for it to work, and that would need to be changed.

If everything needs to stay in this order, then I believe 14/3 only available option.

canuk
Re: LIghts will not shut off
DougLanglois wrote:

Looked to me in the diagram that the power goes

Attic > Right light > Left light > switch

In which case surely this plan would require the power be re-routed? I was trying to work in the constrains of the original configuration as much as possible - i.e. multiple lights, power at start of run, switch at end of run. Is there a way to do that with no 14/3?

I'm not saying 14/3 shouldn't or couldn't be used --- rather it doesn't need to be used.
Obviously the diagram shows incorrect wiring --- something needs to reconfigured.
To correct it --- the 14/2 that exists can simply be reconfigured as shown in Jack's diagram --- or the switch wiring could be moved over to the right light and properly connected ---- doesn't matter.
Besides --- from what I gathered from the OP the wiring was orginally there --- he just moved the luninares from the wall to the ceiling --- he just incorrectly wired everything.

DougLanglois
Re: LIghts will not shut off
canuk wrote:

I'm not saying 14/3 shouldn't or couldn't be used --- rather it doesn't need to be used.
Obviously the diagram shows incorrect wiring --- something needs to reconfigured.
To correct it --- the 14/2 that exists can simply be reconfigured as shown in Jack's diagram --- or the switch wiring could be moved over to the right light and properly connected ---- doesn't matter.
Besides --- from what I gathered from the OP the wiring was orginally there --- he just moved the luninares from the wall to the ceiling --- he just incorrectly wired everything.

Oh I get it. I was just saying that I worked under a different set of assumed constraints than you so I got a different answer. I see no my assumptions were probably incorrect. He probably can re-order the fittings. In which of course he he should, since it'll be easier.

My question was actually genuine - is there a way to have power at the start of the run, switch at the end of the run, and multiple lights in the middle that doesn't use 14/3?

JLMCDANIEL
Re: LIghts will not shut off
DougLanglois wrote:

Oh I get it. I was just saying that I worked under a different set of assumed constraints than you so I got a different answer. I see no my assumptions were probably incorrect. He probably can re-order the fittings. In which of course he he should, since it'll be easier.

My question was actually genuine - is there a way to have power at the start of the run, switch at the end of the run, and multiple lights in the middle that doesn't use 14/3?

A very open question. It can be done using multiple 14/2 cables in at least part of the run.
Jack

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