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bp21901
Re: GFCI- W/Light Switch

For those few that still care about this.....:rolleyes:

I found a unit at the "borg" that, as luck would have it, had an accessible instruction sheet. After intense study, during which I had no problems with any "helpful" employees bothering me, I committed the wiring instructions to memory. I was going to buy one, but I didn't care enough to shell out the $26.

It can be wired one of two ways....switch is GFCI protected or switch is not GFCI protected. I remember somewhere in this thread reading the correct guess, but can't remember who all had it right. If you had it right then just put a beer on my tab! :D

One of the switch leads on the unit goes to either the LINE or LOAD hot (brass) screws depending on whether you want non-GFCI or GFCI. The other switch lead on the unit goes to one wire going to the light. The second wire going to the light is tied to the neutral screw (silver) on either the LINE or LOAD; again depending on what you want, non-GFCI or GFCI.

In the OP's scenario (in case you are still tuned in) it is important to verify which two wires are coming from the panel (hot and neutral) and which two actually are tied to the light fixture (switch loop). Your two panel wires go to the LINE screws and your light fixture wires go as described above.

Hope this helps! :)

kentvw
Re: GFCI- W/Light Switch

........... I realize, and would assume myself that there is probably a hot and neutral feeding the box as well as a neutral and switch leg leaving it and going to the light.

However, based on the description of how it was wired with the recept hot and power to the light I would want to know where each and every wire goes before offering the "final solution" on how to wire this puppy.

JLMCDANIEL
Re: GFCI- W/Light Switch

kentvw,
If you look at the drawing I attached to post #16, it is about the only posible wiring that matches the OP's dis cription of connections and would have the outlet and both lights working.
Jack

canuk
Re: GFCI- W/Light Switch

bp21901... thanks for confirming the suggestions were on the right track. :)

I'm wondering if the instructions were on the back of the wiring diagrams the OP submitted pictures of?

The scary thing was the OP stated trying different combinations of wiring connections ... must have been some sparks flying and popped fuses/circuit breakers . :eek:

kentvw
Re: GFCI- W/Light Switch
NotBuilderBob wrote:

Need some advice...

Right now the GFCI is wired with the hot wire and the vanilla colored wire wired together around the brass top screw, the remaining two black wires are wound around the silver screw on the other side on top. The two wires( Switch leads) that came with the GFCI are threaded into the bottom of the GFCI into the holes by the bottom screws.
It's not grounded yet. But the lights work manually and I have electricity in the electrical plug.

Ms Jen.

Nope,

I understand that this thread may be semantics, never the less…………………

The connections, as stated, make no sense to me what so ever. All I come up with is a dead short. Especially when the switch is in the on position given that we now know the two leads are for the hot and switch leg to the light.

canuk
Re: GFCI- W/Light Switch
kentvw wrote:

Nope,

I understand that this thread may be semantics, never the less…………………

The connections, as stated, make no sense to me what so ever. All I come up with is a dead short. Especially when the switch is in the on position given that we now know the two leads are for the hot and switch leg to the light.

Yep ... agreed.

One page one of this thread that's exactly what I said ... makes no sense. :confused:

The trip switch on the GFCI wouldn't likely activate since the line feeds were on the wrong side of the internal 2 pole switch. :eek:

As long as the OP hadn't turned the switch on the receptacle would be live (not GFCI protected) and they were able to operate the lights manually.

bp21901
Re: GFCI- W/Light Switch
canuk wrote:

I'm wondering if the instructions were on the back of the wiring diagrams the OP submitted pictures of?

I found the detailed instructions were on a separate sheet of paper inside the packaging. The OP's package may have been different or the paper may have been missing, who knows.

I also was thinking dead short when I read the initial post, that is why I think it is most important to verify which leads are which before wiring any of them up.

JLMCDANIEL
Re: GFCI- W/Light Switch

Here's a drawing of a GCFI outlet plus switch with out the control circuit shown. If you hook the Hot to the load brass screw and the common to the load silver screw then the outlet is hot whether the GCFI is tripped or not. If you hook the switch to the power screws the only thing that will happen is you will trip the GFCI that will be to fast to trip a breaker or blow a fuse. Now if you have two wires coming from the light one black and one white. You can hook the white wire to the screw with the hot supply and the other wire to the same screw as the common. Now both the lights work and the outlet is hot. The only thing is the switches on the lights are switching common instead of hot. Nothing is GCFI protected. That is the only way the OP could have it wired as described and work as described.
Jack

Attachment: 
canuk
Re: GFCI- W/Light Switch
JLMCDANIEL wrote:

Here's a drawing of a GCFI outlet plus switch with out the control circuit shown.

The simplified drawing without the sensing/control circuit is correct in that the internal contacts are down stream of the line connections. As your diagram is also correct in the contacts are open when the GFCI unit comes out of the packaging. The only way to close these contacts is to wire the line side first to energize the sensing/control circuit then pushing the reset button. They will remain closed after supply power is removed from the line side.

The sensing/control circuit is the most important component here. This circuitry is energized from the supply power line in ... it's an active circuit not a passive one. This circuit is after ( down stream ) of the line in and before ( up stream ) of the receptacle and load screws. Basically it monitors the balance between the hot and neutral wires by referencing the incoming line then comparing output draw from the receptacle and/or load screws. If there is an imbalance at the load screws or receptacle output compared to the line in reference the internal contacts will open disconnecting the device from line power.

Quote:

If you hook the Hot to the load brass screw and the common to the load silver screw then the outlet is hot whether the GCFI is tripped or not.

Yep ... absolutely.

Quote:

If you hook the switch to the power screws the only thing that will happen is you will trip the GFCI that will be to fast to trip a breaker or blow a fuse.

If the wiring was incorrect as in this situation ... not quite true.

First thing is with the example of your drawing the contacts are open so there is no path to energize the line connectors ( screws ). If the switch leads were hooked up to the line screws and the switch was closed nothing would happen. The receptacle would still be energized and the internal GFCI contacts won't change state.

Now if the internal GFCI contacts were closed and the switch was wired as above when the switch was closed this would be a dead short to the supply lines and blow a fuse or trip a breaker at the panel. It wouldn't trip the internal GFCI contacts since the sensing/control circuit isn't active.

Quote:

Now if you have two wires coming from the light one black and one white. You can hook the white wire to the screw with the hot supply and the other wire to the same screw as the common. Now both the lights work and the outlet is hot. The only thing is the switches on the lights are switching common instead of hot. Nothing is GCFI protected. That is the only way the OP could have it wired as described and work as described.

Yep... as mentioned earlier this would be the same as tying the wires together with wire nuts.

There goes those darn brain cells again.:rolleyes:

My tab must be getting up there ... hopefully djohns has me covered ... I hope he'll take Spruce Bucks.:D

Definitely looks like the OP is long gone ... oh well just us having fun dissecting things.:)

JLMCDANIEL
Re: GFCI- W/Light Switch

canuk

"Now if the internal GFCI contacts were closed and the switch was wired as above when the switch was closed this would be a dead short to the supply lines and blow a fuse or trip a breaker at the panel. It wouldn't trip the internal GFCI contacts since the sensing/control circuit isn't active."

I'm sorry but here you are wrong. The power is wired to the load screws and if the reset button is pressed it will feed the GCFI circuit. The switch is wired to the power screws so if the switch is closed the GCFI circuit will trip faster than the breaker or fuse can react so they won't trip or blow. That's why we use a GCFI to trip faster than a breaker or fuse thus offering us greater protection.
Jack

P.S. The OP may be gone but that should not keep us from broadening our horizons.

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