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canuk
Re: Dishwasher on GFCI
JLMCDANIEL wrote:

The NEC says GFCI is required for receptacles serving the counter top in the home kitchen, it doesn't mention a sink at all.
Jack

Isn't there some definition as to what the space is where the counter top is located to determine the required wiring? If there is no sink would this be considered an area of permanent food prep and cooking?

For example --- if the receptacles wouldn't be within 6ft of a sink then why would a GFCI be required ?

JLMCDANIEL
Re: Dishwasher on GFCI

GCFI required
NEC 210 (A) (6)Kitchens-where the receptacles are installed to serve the countertop surfaces.

The 6ft rule is in210(A)(7) Laundry, utility, and wet bar sinks- where receptacles are installed within 1.8 m(6 ft) of the outside edge of the sink.

In a kitchen the outlets on the opposite wall from a sink would need to be GFCI protected if they service the counter top on that side of the room.
Jack

canuk
Re: Dishwasher on GFCI

Gottcha -- since I don't deal with the NEC just asking.

We have specific definition of the space ---- like a kitchen --- where the GFCi would be required for counters.

Now this comes up from time to time in residential where an area not immediately within the permanet food prep and cooking space that may have a "counter top" that's used as a message area ( i.e. phone, work , kitchen office ) or eating space.

Ernie_Fergler
Re: Dishwasher on GFCI
canuk wrote:

Gottcha -- since I don't deal with the NEC just asking.

We have specific definition of the space ---- like a kitchen --- where the GFCi would be required for counters.

Now this comes up from time to time in residential where an area not immediately within the permanet food prep and cooking space that may have a "counter top" that's used as a message area ( i.e. phone, work , kitchen office ) or eating space.

But by installing a tamper proof GFCI you would always be covered under the NEC. And that should place a grin on all inspectors faces.:D

Ernie_Fergler
Re: Dishwasher on GFCI
canuk wrote:

Kinda funny really.

Just beacuse an electrical circuit is in a kitchen doesn't mean it has to be GFCI protected --- it all depends on where the circuit is located and intended use ( like counter plug ins ).

You keep mentioning the exception of the refrigerator which is more often than not located in a kitchen. What about the stove which is usally located in a kitchen?
How about the microwave which is usually located in the kitchen? Or perhaps the lights located in the kitchen? Let's not forget about the wall clock receptacle ( though not widely used these days ) that is allowed in a kitchen.

Key words are "exception" and "required".

Though one would have to wonder if there was no sink in the kitchen --- would there be a need for GFCI's at all ?

Does anyone ever trip those pesky breakers about every six months or so? To me it seems it is only "recommended" by those "experts" on home improvement shows. Since you are only exerting pressure on the trip spring and not taxing the actual inner working of the breaker, methinks the practice is rather useless and unnecessary. But that is just me.
Any code sleuths out there willing to find that recommendation in the NEC.:eek:

canuk
Re: Dishwasher on GFCI
Ernie_Fergler wrote:

But by installing a tamper proof GFCI you would always be covered under the NEC. And that should place a grin on all inspectors faces.:D

Yep -- that's pretty much the case with some inspectors --- install ground and arc faults everywhere and you pretty much good to go.;):D

Ernie_Fergler
Re: Dishwasher on GFCI

Please don't get me started on AFCIs. I am running low on my meds as it is.....Just kidding they do serve a purpose.

canuk
Re: Dishwasher on GFCI
Ernie_Fergler wrote:

Please don't get me started on AFCIs. I am running low on my meds as it is.....Just kidding they do serve a purpose.

So does bacteria.

A. Spruce
Re: Dishwasher on GFCI
Ernie_Fergler wrote:

Does anyone ever trip those pesky breakers about every six months or so? To me it seems it is only "recommended" by those "experts" on home improvement shows. Since you are only exerting pressure on the trip spring and not taxing the actual inner working of the breaker, methinks the practice is rather useless and unnecessary. But that is just me.
Any code sleuths out there willing to find that recommendation in the NEC.:eek:

Is it really just a trip spring or is there an internal "ground fault" that occurs? It would stand to reason it would be the latter, though knowing how most things are made these days ... :eek::rolleyes:

I know I don't trip GFIs as is commonly recommended. If/when I do test them, I'll use an outlet tester with the "gfi test" button in the middle. It's either that or stand in the tub with an electric heater, I prefer the outlet tester. :D

canuk
Re: Dishwasher on GFCI
A. Spruce wrote:

It's either that or stand in the tub with an electric heater, I prefer the outlet tester. :D

Now that is a true test --- make sure to have a stop watch to time how long it takes for the circuit to trip.;):D

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