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Ernie_Fergler
Re: Dishwasher on GFCI
canuk wrote:

Uhm --- use it to was dishes ?? :p:D

And after the dishes are done, call a sparky and arrange to have said DW wired on a dedicated circuit....

pdkaman
Re: Dishwasher on GFCI

Wow, thanks for all the awesome responses!

Let me clarify one or two things.

1st: the DW hasn't been a problem until I (w/in this DIY Reno) added the GFCI so that I could add a counter top outlet. After some sleuthing myself I realized that this was a bad idea. But at the same time I have left the GFCI and just pigtailed it to the power so that it's not protecting the DW or Disposal.

2nd: in the initial process of wiring the GFCI I didn't have the outlet properly wrapped in electrical tape so in testing the outlet and hitting the reset I got a blue surge that I suspect may have fried the GFCI. So I'm not sure if it's working properly. Using a standard outlet tester, the GFCI option tells me I have a neutral / hot reverse. Which I suspect is its way of telling me the GFI is bad.

I'll check into local codes... that always scares me that I'll be doing something horribly wrong. I'm working in an hold house... so stuff is already old and done wrong. I figure at least my work is an improvement. I'm actually using proper junction boxes and splices :) Perhaps the pigtail on the DW is bad! I'll get to redo that soon as we're getting a new DW.

Thanks all!

A. Spruce
Re: Dishwasher on GFCI
canuk wrote:

Uhm --- use it to was dishes ?? :p:D

Uhm --- Isn't that what the girlfriend is for? ;):p

electricianhelper
Re: Dishwasher on GFCI
Timothy Miller wrote:

Howdy i have not heard of why one would have a GFI on the dishwasher an or disposal circuit. Might consider replacing it with a non gfi circuit breaker. Code now requires both of these appliances to be on their own dedicated circuits. The reason is the start up of the motors may overload a single breaker if both start at same time. Do you have any other loads on this circuit?

What code? The 2008 code just says at least two 20AMP small aplliance branch circuits and with them being of the GFCI protected. The light circuit is seperate. The only execption the code has is the refridgerator can have it's own circuit. As far as moving the GFCI down the circuit, that's against code because the whole circuit wouldn't be GFCI protected. What you can do is take the dishwasher and the disposal off that circuit and place them on the same circuit, but sperate from the other 2 circuits. I would still have to be 20AMP and also GFCI proctected since it will be in the kitchen.

Source: NEC 2008 edition code Article 210.52.B.1 exception Number 2. also Article 210.52.B.3

electricianhelper
Re: Dishwasher on GFCI
deadshort][QUOTE=electricianhelper wrote:

It would still have to be 20AMP and also GFCI proctected since it will be in the kitchen.

Says who?

The NEC book!

JLMCDANIEL
Re: Dishwasher on GFCI
electricianhelper wrote:

What code? The 2008 code just says at least two 20AMP small aplliance branch circuits and with them being of the GFCI protected. The light circuit is seperate. The only execption the code has is the refridgerator can have it's own circuit. As far as moving the GFCI down the circuit, that's against code because the whole circuit wouldn't be GFCI protected. What you can do is take the dishwasher and the disposal off that circuit and place them on the same circuit, but sperate from the other 2 circuits. I would still have to be 20AMP and also GFCI proctected since it will be in the kitchen.

Source: NEC 2008 edition code Article 210.52.B.1 exception Number 2. also Article 210.52.B.3

Might I suggest you read the code. A dishwasher is not a small appliance and is not served by a small appliance outlet. There is no requirement that a dishwasher be protected by a GFCI, and GFCI can be installed down stream from other circuits and only protect that outlet and any outlet wired to the load side. You can also connect to the power side of a GFCI and supply non protected circuit. Not all outlets in a kitchen have to be GFCI protected.
Jack

electricianhelper
Re: Dishwasher on GFCI

You guys don't know what your talking about. I like it when people claim they are electricians meanwhile they are not. Lets see, putting an appliance that is around water don't need to be GFCI protected? That's like saying you should keep a hand gun loaded so someone can shoot you. It's common sense which some people lack, and I can see who. Yes it may not be a small appliance, but being part of a kitchen circuit it has to be. And as far as placing a GFCI "upstream" that means circuits won't be GFCI protected, just the GFCI itself. If you people are "electricians", what must you do every six months with your breakers and why is it recommended? The only exception that an appliance don't have to be included in one of the 2 20AMP GFCI protected circuits is that of a refrigerator.

Ernie_Fergler
Re: Dishwasher on GFCI
JLMCDANIEL wrote:

Might I suggest you read the code. A dishwasher is not a small appliance and is not served by a small appliance outlet. There is no requirement that a dishwasher be protected by a GFCI, and GFCI can be installed down stream from other circuits and only protect that outlet and any outlet wired to the load side. You can also connect to the power side of a GFCI and supply non protected circuit. Not all outlets in a kitchen have to be GFCI protected.
Jack

I agree with all that.:D
But all outlets on counter top have have to be GFCI protected, NEC 210.8{A}{6}; as well as tamper proof, NEC 406.11.
Hope not to add to the confusion, as someone posting here might try rereading parts of the NEC regarding kitchen requirements. Not being critical of any one poster, just stating my opinion. Feel free to disagree.

Timothy Miller
Re: Dishwasher on GFCI

Howdy , I am not an electrician. Great question is GFIs- dishwashers and disposals. Any licensed electricians installing GFI circuit breakers on these two items?
Again opsee about code requiring separate circuits- again my limited knowledge was state specific amended the national code. After reading the draw from the larger disposals i can see why it is a good idea.
What next not isolating microwaves? Sure its not code but since so much currant demand why not it separated if you have the room in the panel?

JLMCDANIEL
Re: Dishwasher on GFCI
Timothy Miller wrote:

Howdy , I am not an electrician. Great question is GFIs- dishwashers and disposals. Any licensed electricians installing GFI circuit breakers on these two items?
Again opsee about code requiring separate circuits- again my limited knowledge was state specific amended the national code. After reading the draw from the larger disposals i can see why it is a good idea.
What next not isolating microwaves? Sure its not code but since so much currant demand why not it separated if you have the room in the panel?

Timothy,
Most NEC requirements are minimum requirements.

GCFI receptacles for counter top outlets are needed because most small appliances have 2 prong plug so are not protected from ground faults internally or if you drop it in a sink full of water or if you stick a fork into a toaster to retrieve the toast. Most large appliances have grounded 3 prong plugs.

The requirement for 2 20 amp small appliance circuits in a kitchen is a minimum requirement in addition to other necessary circuits such as for a range, disposal, dishwasher or other high usage appliances. That's why an electrician does a load calculation. Exceeding code is almost aways acceptable.
Jack

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