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Ricky
Copper Baseboard Missing FINS..!

HELP..!!! I have baseboard heating in an apartment I just moved into... Building's 50-plus years old. In a bedroom, I got the following stuation: 5' housing leading to an inside corner that extends another 10', all 1" Copper piping, all of it missing the fins..! No Aluminum fins,no copper fins... Just copper pipe with housing and end caps. Anyone know of an outfit that sells replacement aluminum fins for 1" pipe? I seem to remember working as a plumber's helper back in the 80's and having a box of fins and I'm taking fins from the box and sliding them onto the copper. Am I imagining this or can I get a box of fins from, say, Slantfin or someone else. I figure I can cut (tinsnips) fins one at a time and clip them on the exciting pipe. Building has no shutoff-valves for individual apartments, so I can't cut pipe and sweat it back together with a coupling. Anybody know where I can get a box of 1" fins (enough for 15' of copper)???
Would really appreciate any help here.
Ricky

JacktheShack
Re: Copper Baseboard Missing FINS..!

Ricky:

Some additional info would have to be provided to get a complete picture of what you have there.

1) if you're renting the apt., it's the landlord's responsibility to provide adequate heat to your bedroom.
2) Adding aluminum fins by glueing isn't done; the fins are bonded by machine to the baseboard elements. 3) Does the room & the apt. feel adequately warm now with the baseboard the way it is??

Heat capacity for a particular room (assuming 8' ceilings) is computed by how many btu's/hour are bleeding out of the room on a cold day, and how many btu's/hour are being produced by the baseboard.

Finned baseboard is nearly always mounted on 3/4" copper tubing, and is rated at ~590 btu/hr per foot.

Thus 10' of finned baseboard would put out 590 X 10 = 5900 btu/hr of heat.

The bare copper would probably put out 100 btu/ft, for another 1000 btu/hr or 6900 btu/hr.

(This assumes the baseboard is getting fairly hot to the touch when they heat up.)

The amount of heat leaving the room by bleeding thru the walls, floor & ceiling is calculated by taking the square footage and multiplying by 40.

Thus a bedroom 15 X 10 = 150 sq.ft. X 40 = 6000 btu/hr needed to heat this room.

In the above example the baseboard should be able to adequately heat the room, even if 1/2 of it is without fins.

This assumes the water inside the baseboard is ~180 degrees; if it's considerably cooler, the baseboard will put out correspondingly less heat.

These are of course very rough estimates to give you some idea of how heat loss is calculated.

If you have 15' of completely bare copper pipe inside the baseboard housing the output would probably be approx. 100 btu/hr X 15 = 1500 btu/hr, which would be totally inadequate.

The sites below have a more accurate way of calculating a heat loss calculation, and ask for more precise information about the room, your geographical location, amount of insulation in the exterior walls, etc.

Could you advise what is the square footage of the room, ceiling height, square footage of the windows, number of exterior walls.

Do you have your own thermostat to control the temp in the room & the apt.???

Have you talked to the landlord about this (assuming the room is too cold) and have you demanded a solution???

http://www.bgmsupply.com/calculateheatloss.asp

http://www.propane.ca/resources/heatloss.asp

Ricky
Re: Copper Baseboard Missing FINS..!

Hey Jack (Or anyone else),

: Yes, I know the Landlord's 'sposed to handle it. Rather then wait on landlord, I fix the problem and deduct from rent.

: I understand most (if not almost all) baseboard copper piping installed nowadays would be 3/4". But as I said ; 50-plus year old building... 1" copper is what I got here.

: Wasn't gonna glue it (if anything, if I had a torch, I'd consider sweating the fins in place, but probably wouldn't bother). Just want to snip each fin at the base (Tin-snips) and clip/twist each one in place. I've done it before, it's not hard, just time-consuming but I don't care. I just wanna twist 'em on and slide them down; working my way across from one end of the pipe to the other. Nothin' fancy.

: I understand the square footage calculations with respect to room size, ceiling height with appropriate length of baseboard etc. Not relevent here. what I got is what I got.

: I'm aware the fins are fixed (Sweated) to the (usually) 3/4" pipe via machine at the (Slantfin, for example) factory.

: What I'm asking for is a way to obtain a box or two (500 pieces, give or take) of roughly 2" square double-bent or flat aluminum fins with a hole in the center... A hole that will allow 1" copper piping to accept said fins. And yes, the piping is measured at the INSIDE of pipe, so whatever it is (hole) 1" &3/64ths??? That's what I'm looking to find.

: Again, thank you (anybody) in advance for any help..!

- Ricky

Ricky
Re: Copper Baseboard Missing FINS..!

In my last post I said I'd need roughly 500 2" square fins...
Actually, it'd be more like 750 fins... 2" x 2 and 5/8 or something close to that.

Thanks again,
Ricky

JacktheShack
Re: Copper Baseboard Missing FINS..!

1) Strongly recommend you avoid modifying the heating system without permission from the LL.
2) copper tubing/fins can't be soldered while there is water in the piping; baseboard will have to be drained before soldering can be done.

Ricky
Re: Copper Baseboard Missing FINS..!

Hey Jack, you're messin with me, right..?

:It's not complicated, man.

: I have the landlord's permission to perform this task.

: I am aware that taking a torch and sweating 750 paper-thin 2" fins to 15' of 1" copper pipe containing pressurized hot water would be nuts... I'm not doing that ( thought I made that clear in my 2nd post.

: Does anyone understand that what I'm shooting for here is simply getting hold of a box or 2 (about 750 total) of aluminum fins.

: That's all I want. Simple.

: And again, I thank you in advance for any help.

Sincerely,
Ricky

Chimney Crickett
Re: Copper Baseboard Missing FINS..!

Ricky:

i agree with Jack. what your trying to do doesnt make any sense. anyone who knows anything about baseboard knows this, but its your life.

try being decent to people on this board who are trying to help. it might get you more help.

nobody's trying to "mess" with you here. jack is just trying to help. you didn't say that you talked to the landlord before, your goin about this the wrong way, and your insulting people with stupid remarks.

Ricky
Re: Copper Baseboard Missing FINS..!

What's going on here?!?!? Lololol

All I wanted was a straight answer to a simple question.

: Can anybody please let me know where/if I can obtain 750 fins to fit 1" copper piping..?

I've gotten 4 responces. And zero information.

We're talking Plumbing/Heating here...

Do you want I should sign each post with a curtsy and a smiley face Lolololol..?

...Not trying to offend. Just looking for information.

Whatever, Nevermind. I'll go to the Plumbing supply.

Thanks anyway,
Ricky

Ricky
Re: Copper Baseboard Missing FINS..!

Another expert heard from... Great.

By the way fellas, One thing is clear to me:

None of you has the slightest idea of my knowledge and experience with respect to baseboard heating. Or anything else for that matter...

You're all speculating (with respect to me and what I know to be factual). You have to because I haven't and don't feel compelled to justify myself to you dorks.

Just so you know, I found the items ( An Old-Timer hooked me up with an old Mom-&Pop plumbing Supply 20 blocks uptown Philly from my building, the guy had several dozen BOXES of 1" FINS. I bought 2...20 bucks..!) I repeatedly was told on this board I would be wrong to go after... would never find... shouldn't try to find... Blah, Blah, Blah.

So, thanks for nothin', Bozos...

-Ricky

Ricky
Re: Copper Baseboard Missing FINS..!

By the way, there "Yuck-yuck", Thank you for pointing out the obvious: The 15' section can (in a perfect world ) be replaced for 2-300 bucks... Material. That's true, usually. You shut off the valve, cut the pipe at each end, replace said pipe (couplings) with new copper equiped with fins, install the new housing and end caps and turn the valve back on... CAN'T DO THAT HERE.

I'm in an old apartment building.
Each indidual unit has NO SHUTOFF VALVE.
In oder to shut off the 180 degree pressurized water flowing though my ONE INCH baseboard, now, in mid-November, In Philadelphia, the entire South side of my building's water has to be killed... That's no water for 1-2 hours minimum for 154 apartments... This is why I need to think outside the box here. So next time you clowns see a question that doesn't have an immediate obvious answer instead of insulting the indidual by pointing out (incorrectly) their ignorance, try allowing for the possiblity that said individual may know exacly what he needs.

Nitwits.

canuk
Re: Copper Baseboard Missing FINS..!
Ricky wrote:

Another expert heard from... Great.

By the way fellas, One thing is clear to me:

None of you has the slightest idea of my knowledge and experience with respect to baseboard heating. Or anything else for that matter...

You're all speculating (with respect to me and what I know to be factual). You have to because I haven't and don't feel compelled to justify myself to you dorks.

Just so you know, I found the items ( An Old-Timer hooked me up with an old Mom-&Pop plumbing Supply 20 blocks uptown Philly from my building, the guy had several dozen BOXES of 1" FINS. I bought 2...20 bucks..!) I repeatedly was told on this board I would be wrong to go after... would never find... shouldn't try to find... Blah, Blah, Blah.

So, thanks for nothin', Bozos...

-Ricky

Geez ... Ricky I hope you visit this thread one more time.

If you weren't such a bozo and nitwit yourself you should have been clear in your original post about what an expert you are. That way people wouldn't be speculating and have to put up with your bonehead attitude. :rolleyes:

Instead you create a ruckus and throw mud at people like JacktheShack who volunteer their time to share their valuable knowledge and expertise to sincerely help people. :mad:

You are wrong we do something about you ... you made it quite clear for people to know what a dork you are.:rolleyes:

It's obvious you took the lazy route posting here looking to find something instead of getting off your butt to do some leg work since you were successful by asking someone locally.:rolleyes:

Feels pretty nice having your own words thrown at you doesn't it? :D

I doubt anyone here will be disappointed or shed a tear if you never come back.:p

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