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andybuildz
cognitive dissonance people?

What that is....is~~
Cognitive dissonance is a psychological term describing the uncomfortable tension that may result from having two conflicting thoughts at the same time, or from engaging in behavior that conflicts with one's beliefs, or from experiencing apparently conflicting phenomena.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

Do you ever feel that on the job?
Are you doing things the way the customer wants even though you know a wiser way but they "refuse" to let you do it the right way?

Do you take jobs doing certain things you disagree with just for the money or are your morals and conscionce more important to you?
Be well
andy

A. Spruce
Re: cognitive dissonance people?

Personally, I never let perceived budget constraints stop me from bidding or doing a job properly. As a matter of fact, most customers were pleasantly surprised at what they could actually afford after looking at my proposals. While I would do what I could to cut costs and save the client money, I never cut corners or used substandard materials to complete a job. The way I see thing is quite simple, I get paid to do a job once, call backs cost me time and money I'm not willing to spend, not to mention the detriment to customer satisfaction and word of mouth advertising that comes with a job well done.

Do I do projects I don't want to do for money? When I started out, yes, money was absolutely a factor, but even then I wouldn't take on just any job for just anyone. Within a year I was ONLY working for folks I liked, and ONLY doing jobs I wanted to do. Previous experience proved that doing things for money alone, regardless of liking the job or client, was a recipe for problems. I work way too hard and too many hours in a day to have to come back to the office and deal with frantic or irate phone calls.

All of my work is word of mouth, all of the folks I work for I like, and all of the work I do is what I like to do or at least have no aversion to. Makes life quite simple and pleasant, makes clients very happy and anxious to have me back for that next project they have in mind.

Re: cognitive dissonance people?

I'm trying to stay with the issue of cognitive dissonance, not how to avoid it or dismiss it or change someone else's perception how thing should be done properly but how one deals with cognitive dissonance in their mind. I just found it a fascinating subject.
Doesn't even havr to be about the workplace really because it all funnels down to your life where ever it comes from and translates to who you are in within what ever you do. I just used those two examples to riff off of...sorry if I wasn't more clear.

For instance you may have religous beliefs different than a co-worker. You may be a more gentle person in your approach to dealing with someone..maybe a customer or supplier or even a guest in the house and your co-worker feels that a very firm hand to the point of what you consider beyond obnoxious goes down in stating his method or point of view in what you're doing on a particular project and you feel like you'd rather place yourself in the guests or H.O's shoes and wiggle around in them a bit before you give up trying to make them understand.
Or
You may just give up and let it go because its not worth it to you....yet you have your co-worker or partner to deal with who actually represents you (the company) to some degree.

I just found it a fascinating subject. Maybe your a Christian yet you believe in a woman's right to choose so how do you deal with your church...do you leave, do you start a forum there or do you just shut up and keep it to yourself...and what would that do to you in the end?
know what i mean?
I guess I'm looking in some ways for a more spirtual/moral explanation as to how you would approach things.

Re: cognitive dissonance people?

canuk
What made me think of this subject was my son-in-law.
He's about 35 and has made a small fortune in business at 30 in the money moving game. buying and selling business'. He worked for a big firm. Most of them were around his age as well. He didn't really care for the way they ran things yet the company was hugely successful and he too was making mtns of money. They even were gonna make him a partner which meant more money than I can even fathom. So what did he do? He quit...gulp. Major confidence in himself. HE and my daughter traveled the world for a year..sailed two sailboats they bought....were in countless races all over this country and were excelling in sailing and especially being so new to it was amazing. I think it's his inherent competitiveness.
anyway..after two years or so of playing, my daughter had a baby (2 months ago)...so he rented a tiny office in the same building as his old company in S.F and is trying to start up his own company..doing things his way. so far it hasn't gone too far but its only been a cpl of months and what he does takes a long time. Its amazing how confidence can dictate your morals to "some degree". When you're really down and out the things a person does sometimes goes against their grain. Its easy to say you wouldn't go against your morals in theory, but when you see your kid starving as an extreme example, you may just change your way of thinking to allow yourself to do what you might have done differently in better times. Its just real interesting to watch how a chain of events in your life can change what you might have swore you'd never do yesterday. its easy to just say "no way", but I know from experiance the roller coaster ride your mind can go through when "other things" hit your fan.

I think examining this phenomenon (cognitive dissonance) helps to keep us in check.

"Life is what happens to you while your busy making other plans".
John Lennon

Be well
andy

kentvw
Re: cognitive dissonance people?

There is no “THE WAY”.

This is my way.

What is your way?

And, keep all judgment out of it.

Yup, everyday…………………………all day……………………………..

goldhiller
Re: cognitive dissonance people?

Andy,

In order to continue with the discussion we will require a few bottles of Boone's Farm wine and the furniture will have to be arranged in a tight-ish circle............such as within arm's reach from one to another. :D

How big is your teepee? ;)

goldhiller
Re: cognitive dissonance people?

When you're really down and out the things a person does sometimes goes against their grain. Its easy to say you wouldn't go against your morals in theory, but when you see your kid starving as an extreme example, you may just change your way of thinking to allow yourself to do what you might have done differently in better times. Its just real interesting to watch how a chain of events in your life can change what you might have swore you'd never do yesterday. its easy to just say "no way", but I know from experiance the roller coaster ride your mind can go through when "other things" hit your fan.

Robert A Heinlein wrote once "If you don't think a man will kill for a can of tomatoes, you have never been hungry".

Re: cognitive dissonance people?
goldhiller wrote:

Andy,

In order to continue with the discussion we will require a few bottles of Boone's Farm wine and the furniture will have to be arranged in a tight-ish circle............such as within arm's reach from one to another. :D

How big is your teepee? ;)

Goldie...Tipi's plenty big for all of us cept I don't do Boone's farm...we'll have to deal with passing the peace pipe around ;)
My tipi's 20' btw

>>Robert A Heinlein wrote once "If you don't think a man will kill for a can of tomatoes, you have never been hungry".<< Good answer!

goldhiller
Re: cognitive dissonance people?

Okay........"peace pipe" it is. Been a while, but I'm sure I'll remember how. ;)

However, in keeping with an age-old tradition...... there must also be some Boone's Farm for those who wish to partake.

As always......last man who's still awake..... wins! :D

Marjorie
Re: cognitive dissonance people?

Well, we'll have to have a fire, too... so far we have a peace pipe, boone's farm, I'll bring some single malt scotch... and let the discussion roll. :)

I agree, morals in principle, in theory, sometimes change in the reality of a situation. It's dangerous to state flatly that one would do this o that, or would not do it, or would not put up with something... because then, sure as can be, the lesson as to 'why' comes along. argh.

I belonged to a church for many years, was an assistant pastor and when the pastor went on to the great pulpit in the sky, was a co-pastor. We had a small board, and some of the members and one board member wanted changes. Only 3 on the board, and a vote was taken that would change the way the church did things and move away from the Christian teachings it was founded upon. After prayer, I had to resign. I could have continued there, in the same position, but would have been a huge hypocrite.

And you've got it right - sometimes we must wear the other person's shoes a while.

Interesting topic, Andy!

Re: cognitive dissonance people?
Marjorie wrote:

Well, we'll have to have a fire, too... so far we have a peace pipe, boone's farm, I'll bring some single malt scotch... and let the discussion roll. :)

I agree, morals in principle, in theory, sometimes change in the reality of a situation. It's dangerous to state flatly that one would do this o that, or would not do it, or would not put up with something... because then, sure as can be, the lesson as to 'why' comes along. argh.

I belonged to a church for many years, was an assistant pastor and when the pastor went on to the great pulpit in the sky, was a co-pastor. We had a small board, and some of the members and one board member wanted changes. Only 3 on the board, and a vote was taken that would change the way the church did things and move away from the Christian teachings it was founded upon. After prayer, I had to resign. I could have continued there, in the same position, but would have been a huge hypocrite.

And you've got it right - sometimes we must wear the other person's shoes a while.

Interesting topic, Andy!

thanks Marj...I think so too because it really makes you think.
For me it makes me think about some of the decissions I make in my life from the way I build certain things to realationships to who I vote for.

I think what it truly gets down to, like within most things, is being truly honest with yourself. I think sometimes its OK to go against a core belief for different reasons. I mean examining how that core belief became core to begin with is the first thing...because things do change with time..not saying some things should or have to but its good to do a brain/moral check every now and again.

There were times in my ulustrious building career :D when I'd do things differently because of my self set morals. Like making sure certain things were "perfect" before I moved onto the next step...but after X amount of years I started realizing that certain steps were OK to leave out...that I wouldn't be sacrificing the integrity of the project. It gave me more time to pay attention to other phases which might not have been as interesting to me but were as equally or maybe even more important within the project. All that gave me more time to complete what I was doing and move on..instead of notoriously getting tied up in the same thing for ridiculously long periods of time so the entire things was "perfect".

An example is...I have a builder friend that does renovations as well that lives near me. He was hired out by a common friend of ours to make some repairs on the exterior of the house. HE had to remove a very old and large decrotive front round column..fix the soffet area, fix part of the rotted column and replace it.
Takes the column down and opens up the wood soffet and sees some rotted non bearing 2x material up in there. He scrapes it all out and orders an epoxy wood through the mail (abatron) then mixes up a gallon and pushes it into the scraped out area...sands it down, puts the soffet back then needs "more" albatron so charges the customer (our friend) for another gallon and orders up yet more which you have to wait days for being its coming via UPS or FedEx. HE repairs the column and reinstalled it. Customer is kinda pissed it took so long and cost him a serious ($$$$$$:eek: ) bundle in Albatron epoxy. I asked my friend why he used Albatron "inside" the soffet area rather than just putting in another 2x. He said because someone might open it up one day and he didn't want it to look like a patch job. He felt the Abatron became more apart of it all (how zen...lol) rather than a patch.

Personally I think that was nuts! Cost our friend a bundle for something no one would ever see...took forever and everyone became irritated through out the project. But he never veered from what "he believed" to be the proper way of doing things.

I think sometimes no matter what you believe you need to feel where the other person is standing and how important your belief is or are you just living in a tunnel vision stance.

Same with politicians...maybe more so with politicians..and their followers. Just like this Iraq war and a lot of Bush's hardcore fans vs people that see it as a mistake. No matter which side you stand on you need to weigh the true meaning of it all...not take sides. You may swear you'll stick with the Republicans or the Democrats like you and your parents before you but sometimes you need to see beyond party lines...in all that you do.

I'm macrobiotic..have been for three years now faithfully. the diets changed throughout the years because the way the world was when Oshawa started it changed as the years went on so us hardcore macrobiotic people have been open enough to realize some things have to change with the times. Nothing is set in stone.
BE well
andy

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