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goldhiller
Re: Build your own cabinets
waltdeckhouse wrote:

I have been meaning to ask. If we decide to build a self supporting deck I will need to put posts INTO the ground...correct? If so, what is the best way to do this? Seems to me putting wood into the ground is asking for a rotting problem sooner or later. Is it best to encapsulate the post in a concrete casing (Sonitube??) like thing?

OR....

Is it better to build a big concrete plug in the ground and then somehow bolt the post to the concrete? If so, do you sink the bolt into the wet concrete and then put a hole up the middle of the post for securing it? Maybe with a cross hole for tightening a nut down? Maybe putting the post off the concrete with a metal standoff?

Walt,

Yes, you're making sense. :)

When it comes to devising a plan for the new deck ...there's alot to take into account. For instance, if/when you cut back those beams...you must somehow insure that no water will to get the ends of them. If it does and they start to rot ... you'd then have some really major problems as the portion under the house supports the house itself. I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you haven't already considered as regards that.

Metal flashings may very well come into play. However, assessing and engineering that sorta thing isn't something that can really be done at this distance. Pretty much impossible to do.

As far as your notions concerning the support posts/piers for the deck...yes, they need to be below the frost line... at the least. As to which post/pier method...it depends. In the final analysis, your local building department will have much to say, if not total control, as regards what they will and won't accept. If you hire a local engineer to assist with this, he/she will likely already have this information and can help you design accordingly. If you're going to proceed without the assistance of a local engineer...you need to contact the building department before you go any further with deck design so that you don't waste time and effort on a fruitless plan.

And yes, what you have on your hands at the moment is a stinker. Or should we say...challenging? It can be done for sure, but will require that virtually every little detail is well thought out and well-engineered ahead of time.

In my mind, a very significant issue as regards final deck engineering and design hinges upon whether or not you intend/decide to build another foundation wall to support the house wall or decide to leave that portion cantilevered.

waltdeckhouse
Re: Build your own cabinets

Hi All,

Sorry I have not checked in for a while. We are still licking our wounds over this deck issue. We are in the process of going after a home equity loan....and you can imagine how that is going. And we are still sorting out design issues...such as moving the AC unit and providing heat in this new area. The floor is a slab...so I am not positive how to provide areas to pass through the lines to supply power, AC refrigerant and heating water. I am even considreing in-floor radiant heat...but have no idea how to tackle that one.

Anywho...got a question on finishing. GH...I have used your OBP/Tung oil mix for some time but came across an article in FWW that uses alkyd varnish, TO and Japan drier. I am thinking of using this for the mahogony table I have been working on. It seems like it might rub out better than the OBP. You got any thoughts on that?

-W

goldhiller
Re: Build your own cabinets

OMG! You're back! ;)

Yes, I can imagine how securing a HEL is these days. Like pulling hen's teeth. I'm sure the whole deal is a big pain and a kick in the pants. A major project during a perfect storm, no less. Argh. Thoughts are with you ...and have been.

As far as this recipe for a finish....go for it...is what I'd say. There are many various concoctions for penetrating oil finishes and the combination you're contemplating as been around for quite a while. The only way you find the ones that suit your purposes and aesthetics is to try 'em out. The best part of these types of penetrating finishes is that they are relatively easy to remove *if* they aren't what you desire...and that they are relatively easy to refresh/renew when needed.

As for the recent announcements revealing what's been happening in the financial world... and the impact this is having on everyone on main street...me thinks it's time to head to DC with a truck full of rope. They were all complicit & comrades in this... as I see it. http://market-ticker.denninger.net/

waltdeckhouse
Re: Build your own cabinets

GH,

Thanks for the sympathy. I have no idea what to make of this finance thing. And the whole premise of just signing off $700B with just a "trust us" sort of clause....well it is beyond all reason. This shell game of making the rich richer is going to be the downfall of us all. I am in the middle for reading "Unequal Democracy" which is even more maddening. http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8664.html

Anywho...on to the things in life that I can actually have an effect on. I will give the finish a whirl. Going through the FWW article I noticed his process is VERY similar to yours. He adds the Japan dryer...but that is probably the biggest difference. He also makes a slurry by sanding with the finish wet to fill the pores. I am very curious to see how that looks.

Regarding the renovation....have you ever embedded PVC pipe in concrete to pass wires, etc? With the post and beam construction I am finding it hard to route lines out of plain view.

-W

goldhiller
Re: Build your own cabinets
waltdeckhouse wrote:

GH,

He also makes a slurry by sanding with the finish wet to fill the pores. I am very curious to see how that looks.

Regarding the renovation....have you ever embedded PVC pipe in concrete to pass wires, etc? With the post and beam construction I am finding it hard to route lines out of plain view.

-W

Yup. Wet sanding with the mixture can make a difference. How much difference depends upon the particular concoction and the species of wood involved, of course. Basically you are heating up the finish... which makes it congeal/thicken a bit and then you are forcing this congealing finish down into the pores....where you hope it stays. The use of a grain filler prior to finish application achieves much the same thing... meaning a more glass-like final appearance.

What else makes a difference is how finely you sand the wood prior to finish application. For the "high-end" project or commissioned piece (time is money afterall) I will dry sand down to 600 grit, then it's time for finish application. Mind you this does not apply when finishing pine or similar softish woods cause you can sand your brains out for very little gain beyond a certain point.

Beddng PVC in concrete is done all the time. Just make sure you have enough crete over the pipe so that it (the crete) doesn't crack. Depending upon how much concentrated weight might roll over it someday....gonna say 1 1/2" - 2" would likely suffice. More won't hurt.

Bedded residential radiant-heat PEX tubes don't usually get buried that deep even. 1 1/2" concrete bed with 1/2" PEX stapled to subfloor. But since they are smaller in diameter than what you will likely use for these raceways, the mud isn't bridging as far either.

This shell game of making the rich richer

This is because we have ...the best goverment that money can buy. I'm getting enough rope for every legislator and for every lobbyist...which in many instances...are the exact same people. Legislator by day, lobbyist by night. Mind you, this is when they aren't out on another 3 week vacation at the Hamptons or in their French villa. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0FJhOMc-vA

PS- It won't make any difference whether we have the Ds or Rs in control. They just use different doors to raid the henhouse....and then blame the bloodbath on the other party. Same ol', same ol'.

waltdeckhouse
Re: Build your own cabinets

Does anyone know how long a typical in ground oil tank should last? Ours is about 35 YO. We are doing some landscaping out front and was wondering if I should get the tank replaced before putting in plants, etc.

-W

waltdeckhouse
Re: Build your own cabinets

GH or Spruce,

I have a question for you. I am making a laminated arch from african mahogony. Dimensions: ~1" thick (lamination direction) ~2.25" wide (normal to lamination...this is the width of the strips)...~36" long. I am using a press made out of MDF to hold the pieces during glue up. My question is...how do you clean up the side edges of the lamination after the glue has dried? Obviously, scraping the glue off would be step #1. Should I take it over to the jointer after that? (seems dangerous to me) And how do I handle the second edge? I tried putting a lamination through a thickness planer once and the lamination exploded. Should I put it through the tablesaw and kind of rock the arch through the gap between the blade and the fence?

-Walt

A. Spruce
Re: Build your own cabinets

As a teen I worked with a furniture manufacturer, helping with prototyping in his home shop. He did a lot of "free form" chairs, that is to say, built up laminates to create the curved bases, arms, and back supports. Mind you, this is going back about 25 years or so, so details are a bit sketchy. My recollection is that he ripped the pieces of veneer about 1/4"-3/8" wider than the finished piece would be. The glue up was done on a flat surface so that the sides of each strip of veneer was relatively equal, IIRC, he even lightly tapped them with a dead-blow hammer to even them up a touch before tightening the clamps down. Once dry the glue was scraped and the pieces were fed through a surface sander which works better at gently removing material rather than a planer that rather violently whacks at the piece with knives.

I'm really trying to remember how he did the pieces that came nearly full circle that were too large for the sander or planer. He probably took those pieces to work and ran them through an industrial sized surface sander.

If your arch isn't too pronounced, then you can send it through your planer with a backer board on either side of it to keep the knife bed level and stable. Or, use the joiner to true up one edge, then clamp the piece on a solid surface with the true edge down. Set up a router jig to cradle the router above the work, then move the router back and forth across the work to cut it to the proper width. I wouldn't recommend sending it through the tablesaw because you really don't have much control over the piece and could easily cause a kick-back situation or worse.

goldhiller
Re: Build your own cabinets
waltdeckhouse wrote:

Does anyone know how long a typical in ground oil tank should last? Ours is about 35 YO. We are doing some landscaping out front and was wondering if I should get the tank replaced before putting in plants, etc.

-W

I don't really know. And...it would depend upon the gauge of the tank steel, etc. This "bury the tank" approach is not done around these parts, although I know it's SOP in some areas of the country.

Me thinks that one of the plastic tanks available for heating oil might be just the ticket when it comes to burial. Would require that it was surrounded by sand in the hole I'm sure...just like for plastic septic tanks.

goldhiller
Re: Build your own cabinets
waltdeckhouse wrote:

GH or Spruce,

I have a question for you. I am making a laminated arch from african mahogony. Dimensions: ~1" thick (lamination direction) ~2.25" wide (normal to lamination...this is the width of the strips)...~36" long. I am using a press made out of MDF to hold the pieces during glue up. My question is...how do you clean up the side edges of the lamination after the glue has dried? Obviously, scraping the glue off would be step #1. Should I take it over to the jointer after that? (seems dangerous to me) And how do I handle the second edge? I tried putting a lamination through a thickness planer once and the lamination exploded. Should I put it through the tablesaw and kind of rock the arch through the gap between the blade and the fence?

-Walt

You can likely count on some "toe-in" developing in the first week or so after you remove the lams from the form. IOW, the arch will become a bit tighter at the tips than it is in the form. Will likely have some spring-back (a bit bigger) when initally removed, but as time passes that spring-back will become a bit of toe-in instead.

Usually use Titebond for these lams and I ALWAYS stay with the glue-up until the squeeze-out becomes like bubblegum consistency...at which point the vast majority of that excess is easily removed with a sharp chisel or paint scraper. This saves big time on labor and on jointer blades, etc.

"Over-width" the lams for the arch by a minimum of 3/8". 1/2" would be safer. Keep them lined up/flushed up as nicely as possible during glue-up nonetheless. Then...depending upon the size of the arch and the width of your jointer bed....either joint one edge on the machine....or handplane that first edge to dead flat...or use a combo of both methods.

Now is where we come to the more difficult part which is of course....getting the other edge cut to width and parallel. Disclaimer :D....I'm not suggesting that you do this, but is how I usually do it ..IF the piece is of a size that is negotiable in this manner -

Clamp/rig a long and tall-ish piece of dead-flat ply or MDF (or whatever) to the fence of the tablesaw so as to act as both a guide and support for the arch as its fed thru the tablesaw. IOW, make a big freakin' fence that is square to the tablesaw surface. I then keep the jointed edge of the arch pushed tightly against this fence as it is fed in "rocking fashion"...thru the blade. By far....the best and safest way (frequently only way) to do this is with an assistant with steady hands to help feed and keep the arch pushed up against the elevated fence. The blade of the saw is elevated ONLY so far as to allow the teeth (and maybe 1/2 of the gullets) protrude thru the wood. Steady feed-rate and steady hands are of the utmost importance as you can imagine. This is no place for someone who is frightened of the manuver or unfamiliar with using tablesaws. One little flinch at the wrong moment and disaster can/will result. I've personally never had a bad outcome doing this...but I'm sure it would be easy enough to achieve. Make no mistake...it is somewhat dangerous. Try a few/numerous practice runs holding the piece against the fence set-up to get a feel for things before you try the real deal.....IF you decide to try it. Again....I'm NOT recommending it...just relating how I do it. Lead and trailing ends are the most dangerous. Middle isn't too difficult to control as a rule.(Yes, I still have all ten....and thanks for asking. :D ) No beer beforehand. Save that for later. ;)

Router with sled (as already suggested) would be another way....and frankly.........would be much safer.

Don't recall ever trying to feed one (an arch) thru either an abrasive planer or a surfacer.

(PS- When I set this fence up....I make dang sure that the cutting only takes place at the lead edge of the tablesaw blade. IOW, the fence is not dead parallael to the blade. That bit (1/32"+) of clearance at the back edge of the blade is added insurance against potential binding and kick-back. So far, so good.)

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