Hi -
Live in a 30-year-old house; among other things we've done, I've been slowly replacing all the electrical outlets and light switches - both for aesthetics and because they're so old that they're loose.
Today I changed out all in the master bedroom and upstairs hallway. When I flipped the circuit breaker back on, it tripped. I went upstairs, checked all the wiring, saw nothing, flipped it again. It reset - but when I went upstairs again, still no power. I went back and (after flipping the circuit breaker off of course) disconnected every outlet and switch I messed with today, leaving the wires all dangling but absolutely not touching each other nor anything else. Flipped the circuit breaker again - it still stayed on without tripping, but still no power at any outlet or switch. Ideas? Think the circuit breaker is bad?
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Sat, 06/21/2008 - 22:11
#1
schank
Bad circuit breaker?
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It's possible ... however ..... there is one simple test to find out.
Simply swap this breaker with another in the panel.
If after swapping breakers the problem stays on the circuit in question then you can bet it isn't likely the breaker.
If the same problem moves to the other circuit then it indicates the breaker in question is likely bad.
One question comes to mind based on the vintage of the home's wiring .... is this aluminium wiring?
If it is ...... you need to be using appropriate fixtures that are rated for aluminium wiring and not for copper wiring .... or the appropriate transition pigtail for aluminium to copper.
If the breaker checks out OK .... then it seems to have only started after you were doing the upgrades which seems to indicate something has been disturbed ?
As a recommendation don't insert the wires into the holes on the back of the receptacles ... instead make sure to use the screw terminals .
It's possible there may be a nicked hot wire with the bare conductor touching the grounded box. This might show up when you pushed the wires back into the box.
Is there a GFCI receptacle somewhere upstream that may be feeding this circuit?
There were 2 types of GFCI receptacles ...
One type .... when power was disconnected to the GFCI and restored you have to manually reset the GFCI. These types were commonly used for areas where things like table saws would be plugged in ... when the power went out and came back on the saw wouldn't start on it's own..... for example.
The second type .... when power is disconnected and restored the GFCI is live without needing to manually reset.
If there is a GFCI in the circuit somewhere it may have also tripped and not feeding the downstream receptacles you are replacing.
It's also possible when you had been replacing the receptacles you may have loosened a neutral or hot splice under a wire nut in one of the junction boxes.
Just some thoughts. :)
Oops ... once again my slow 2 finger typing ... sorry for duplicating information.:o
I am sorry maybe in your part of the country that was common not to combine lighting and outlets. But that was not the case in all parts of the country. to the OP do not assume that when you turn a breaker off it is just light or just outlets. they wire them together all the time use a tester to make sure it is not energized. :confused:
Ravens53 .... absolutely agree ... good points.:cool:
I have a question, which may seem simple for many of you professional electricians, but I cannot seem to figure it out. I recently purchased a new chandelier lighting fixture for the kitchen in my house. As the previous lighting was working properly, I installed the new light by connecting the two black and white wires then grounding it. When turning on the circuit breaker, the breaker instantly tripped off. I then tried disconnecting the ground wire, for whatever reason, and the light turned on; however the switch controlling the light in the room had no function and wouldn't turn the light on or off. First of all, I don't really understand how the ground wire would affect the operation of this light. Secondly, does the fact that the circuit breaker instantly trips off when turned on mean that that breaker is bad and needs replaced? Does anyone have any experience with this specific situation? Any sort of information you can supply would be very helpful. Thank you in advance...
The only way a ground is going to trip the breaker is if the ground and the hot is connected to the same point. That could be a short in the light, however with the other problems you stated, I would have to suspect you have it wired wrong. For better help we need to know exactly what wires and how many you have in the box and to what you connected the ground.
Jack
There are two wires and a ground coming from the ceiling box. I am attaching the black and white wires from the fixture to the correct wires specified in the instructions. I am then attaching the two ground wires together, then stringing them around teh ground screw on the mounting bracket. I do not thing there is any way I am wiring this thing wrong. DO you think the instructioned have the wires reversed? I am hoping there is not a problem with the light fixture either, but I have no idea.
There is another light past the light fixture I am trying to install in my kitchen, which is an outside porch light. This light is still working properly. I guess I don't really know where to go from here except to maybe contact an electrician, but I would like to try and rectify the situation before doing so. It sounds like the first scheme you posted in your last reply fits the description of what I am seeing, though not being an electrician, I cannot be certain. There were no marks or tape to indicate anything out of the ordinary with the light originally installed, though I did not take a picture or remember anything out of the ordinary with the original light fixtures connection. I do not have any sort of electrical equipment to help out with this problem either. How would one go about rectifying this problem in a way that wouldn't ruin the circuit breaker or wiring already established if the solution does not work out? Your last post was helpful, but if you have a simple fix to this problem I would love to experiment on the light, given the power is off haha. Thank you
When you say there are two wires in the box, do you mean one black and one white or do you mean two cables with a black and white on each?
Jack
I may get flamed for making this quick and dirty suggestion but it's worked for me. One way to easily test the fixture is to effectively plug the black and white wires of the fixture into an electrical outlet.
By "effectively" I actually mean do this:
1. Put the fixture in a safe location where it won't cause any problems SHOULD it cause a short etc. If you can do this outside on a concrete sidewalk etc... all the better. It should be away from people, pets, and flamable items to be safe... but close enough where you can see it when the light (hopefully) comes on.
2. Find a good heavy outdoor extension cord. With the cord unplugged, firmly insert the black and white fixture wires into the female end of the cord (one wire in each vertical slot). If the fixture has a ground wire you can place that into the round hole of the cord. Be sure the wires are well inserted to make good contact.
3. Plug the extension cord into a working outlet. If you have access to a switched recepticle, all the better. That way you can control the power from a wall switch and keep even more distance. The important part is to use a good heavy cord and a grounded outlet.
4. Check the light. If it doesn't work, unplug the cord and check the wires and try again etc until you are satisfied that the fixture is bad. Most likely it will work and you can rule it out as your problem.
Again, this probably isn't OSHA approved :eek: or for the faint of heart... but it works and CAN be done safely.
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