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Old Tom
Are jumper grounded outlets safe?

I've seen people run a jumper from the neutral terminal of an outlet to the ground terminal when working in older houses with only two wire systems and no separate ground available. I know it satisfies a tester to read that the outlet is properly grounded and even allows GFCI outlets to work. I also know that in many three wire systems the ground and neutral wires all go back to the same buss in the panel anyway. My normal practice has been to run a new ground wire at least to a cold water pipe or a rod in the ground depending on which is more convenient for the location. Have I been doing a lot of extra work for nothing? Is the jumper arrangement just as safe, and is it an approved (code) procedure?

Old Tom

Re: Are jumper grounded outlets safe?
Old Tom wrote:

Is the jumper arrangement just as safe, and is it an approved (code) procedure?

Old Tom

NO, NO

I need a maximum of ten charachters to post but there really isnt anything else to add

NEC
Re: Are jumper grounded outlets safe?

What Lloyd said................

Both methods desribed are dangerous and far from code compliant.

JLMCDANIEL
Re: Are jumper grounded outlets safe?

Very little can be added to Lloyd's eloquent and definitive answer NO, NO.

As a side note ground has nothing to do with the function of a GFCI. The GFCI compares the current flow in the hot and neutral and trips if they don't match.
Jack

Re: Are jumper grounded outlets safe?
JLMCDANIEL wrote:

As a side note ground has nothing to do with the function of a GFCI. The GFCI compares the current flow in the hot and neutral and trips if they don't match.[/COLOR]
Jack

right .. on the load side, thats what makes it ok to use a gfi where no egc is present, but that sticker doesnt really replace a ground. It really doesnt take much to pull a piece of thhn for an egc.

canuk
Re: Are jumper grounded outlets safe?
Lloyd wrote:

NO, NO

I need a maximum of ten charachters to post but there really isnt anything else to add

NEC wrote:

What Lloyd said................

Both methods desribed are dangerous and far from code compliant.

JLMCDANIEL wrote:

Very little can be added to Lloyd's eloquent and definitive answer NO, NO.

As a side note ground has nothing to do with the function of a GFCI. The GFCI compares the current flow in the hot and neutral and trips if they don't match.
Jack

Ditto ..... Ditto ........ Ditto

JLMCDANIEL
Re: Are jumper grounded outlets safe?
Lloyd wrote:

right .. on the load side, thats what makes it ok to use a gfi where no egc is present, but that sticker doesnt really replace a ground. It really doesnt take much to pull a piece of thhn for an egc.

Agree. I wasn't saying not to run a ground just correcting a statement made by the op "I know it satisfies a tester to read that the outlet is properly grounded and even allows GFCI outlets to work."
Jack

Ernie_Fergler
Re: Are jumper grounded outlets safe?
Old Tom wrote:

I've seen people run a jumper from the neutral terminal of an outlet to the ground terminal when working in older houses with only two wire systems and no separate ground available. I know it satisfies a tester to read that the outlet is properly grounded and even allows GFCI outlets to work. I also know that in many three wire systems the ground and neutral wires all go back to the same buss in the panel anyway. My normal practice has been to run a new ground wire at least to a cold water pipe or a rod in the ground depending on which is more convenient for the location. Have I been doing a lot of extra work for nothing? Is the jumper arrangement just as safe, and is it an approved (code) procedure?

Old Tom

It might satisfy a tester, but it should not satisfy an inspector.

Old Tom
Re: Are jumper grounded outlets safe?

Thanks everyone, you confirmed my suspicions. The thing that started me noticing this practice was when someone at a Home Depot sold a customer of mine some outlets he had wired jumpers onto for her. I'm just a general handy man, not a licensed electrician, so I wasn't sure.

Old Tom

JLMCDANIEL
Re: Are jumper grounded outlets safe?

It's called "The Orange Plague"

Jack

Ernie_Fergler
Re: Are jumper grounded outlets safe?
Old Tom wrote:

Thanks everyone, you confirmed my suspicions. The thing that started me noticing this practice was when someone at a Home Depot sold a customer of mine some outlets he had wired jumpers onto for her. I'm just a general handy man, not a licensed electrician, so I wasn't sure.

Old Tom

Not very surprising that such a practice would come from a big box employee. Just sad.....:(

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