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A. Spruce
Re: About burning pressure treated wood

Here is a simple truth for you.

If you wouldn't eat it or drink it, then don't burn it or dump it into the environment.

tgm1024
Re: About burning pressure treated wood
jkirk wrote:

so why are you so concerned about such a thing... pt is full of chemicals..its proven.. the new stuff isnt as bad as the older type. which is proven

the late larry haun a legendary carpenter who published countless articles along with several books for the taunton press died last month of cancer. he is certain that a good reason for his cancer is do to years of handling lumber that was dripping with arsenic.. now imagine this stuff burning what is released into the air and those surrounding it...

Actually you raise a perfect example of why causality is so difficult to discern. Oddly enough, I have been looking into the nih, cdc, and [believe it or not it exists] cancer.gov.

Consider: An enormous number of people die from cancer. As a lesson in managing percentages of large populations, of those victims it wouldn't surprise me that there exist people who have been exposed to something or other in their lives oddly or markedly identifiable. For example, there might exist a horse racer that was elbow deep in saddle soap most of his life....he might suspect that as the primary actor. An electrician might suspect the EM fields he bathes in. And a construction worker would ponder the chemicals in the wood. And each of them would be right in questioning things.

As for burning poisons, I can't even guess close to the number of factors that aren't yet taken into account, or at least don't seem to be (shrug). Perhaps some of these need to be asked?

  • • how much of the toxin is denatured from heat
  • • how much of it is obliterated on combustion
  • • how much of what's released bonds immediately with surrounding molecules, limiting its systemic absorption by the human body
  • • if the emmision is indeed as dangerous, or even more dangerous per mg, then how much of it do you actually breathe in? Remember it's radiating outward in a rough hemisphere around the burn, and your mouth is a small fraction of that hemisphere, and the inverse square law diminishes that intersection very rapidly with every step backward.

That was just typing quickly off the top of my head.

If you know of something conclusive, please post it here.

tgm1024
Re: About burning pressure treated wood
A. Spruce wrote:

Here is a simple truth for you.

If you wouldn't eat it or drink it, then don't burn it or dump it into the environment.

Leaves, dirt, twigs, rocks? ;)

canuk
Re: About burning pressure treated wood
tgm1024 wrote:

Yes, that's indeed true about the common sense. Hence the reason I stated I would never do it.

I dont think that drinking gasoline is not an applicable analogy. It would be like saying that there is no evidence about the damage from sticking plastic toothpicks in your eyes as opposed to wooden ones. In the gasoline case, direct ingestion of such things have specific reactions. In fact I remember reading of such things as a kid from a doctor of an Emergency Room because of the then energy crisis. The question with the PT is 1. is anything released, or consumed, 2. is it inhaled/coating you or otherwise in contact with you dangerously, and 3. has the toxin been denatured anyway if so. For my counter broken analogy, punctured globes are commonly understood, regardless.

In life we are warned about the problem of CO emissions.....these HAVE caused deaths and there have been several attempts to address it (detectors, warning about burning things indoors, etc.) We understand the results of smoking. We even know with clinical certainty the results of various amounts of heat in direct contact with skin ("don't touch a hot stove" is more than common sense).

BUT.....I don't see anything substantive about burning pressure treated wood anywhere. And I am searching for something.

The point being -- do I need to have pages upon pages of scientific research showing imperical data proving something is bad ? Especially when an reliable source states it .

For example ........ Coming from Health Canada regarding CCA treated wood .......

Quote:

Can I burn CCA-treated wood?

No, the practice of burning CCA-treated wood is unacceptable. Burning treated wood concentrates and releases the preservative chemicals in the ash and smoke of a fire.

I don't need imperical data to believe it -- good enough for me.

canuk
Re: About burning pressure treated wood
A. Spruce wrote:

Here is a simple truth for you.

If you wouldn't eat it or drink it, then don't burn it or dump it into the environment.

Well put. ;):cool:

dj1
Re: About burning pressure treated wood

tgm,

It's pretty obvious you came here to DEBATE, not to find answers. However we are not so good in debates and philosophy. We are good in fixing faucets and toilets.

The president is good in debates. Obama will debate you till you drop. You'll love it. You should direct your question and thoughts to him.

tgm1024
Re: About burning pressure treated wood
dj1 wrote:

tgm,

It's pretty obvious you came here to DEBATE, not to find answers.

Absolutely incorrect, and that's rude to think that you can just wipe clean what I'm saying by some sort of high-road categorization.

I am outright asking if there is anything substantive. So far I've only received things that fall into the realm of common sense, a position I already admit to understanding and abiding by!

Are you only satisfied by people accepting your answer as addressing the question in the first place? Besides, I've been very very clear here: I'm not disagreeing that burning PT is unsafe. I'm pointing out that no where is there anything substantive other than words that seem to be taken at face value.

I'm not here to debate or argue as a goal, but will re-iterate a point when the answers received here fall directly into what I've been talking about.

tgm1024
Re: About burning pressure treated wood
canuk wrote:

Well put. ;):cool:

I like it as well. It's a good default mindset for keeping our world safe.

tgm1024
Re: About burning pressure treated wood
canuk wrote:

The point being -- do I need to have pages upon pages of scientific research showing imperical data proving something is bad ?

No one said, or implied that you did. But you SHOULD want statements that do not sit unsupported in a vacuum.

Quote:

Especially when an reliable source states it .

For example ........ Coming from Health Canada regarding CCA treated wood .......

They supply a mere statement without anything showing direct effect by measure.

Quote:

I don't need imperical data to believe it -- good enough for me.

Of COURSE. I don't need it either to guide my actions. But isn't it ok in your book for me to question statements that sit in a vacuum as if they're self evident? You had better read and re-read what I WROTE and not what you HOPED I wrote.

tgm1024
Re: About burning pressure treated wood

Ok, apparently this thread is going directly into where I had hoped it would not.

Let's be clear here (again):
1. I consider it a good idea to not burn something with harsh chemicals in it.
2. I would not recommend it.

BUT:
I am looking to see if anything about this common sense is in any way backed up scientifically. We should get out of the habit of accepting things at face value. NO facts are self evident in meaning, they ALL require verification and analysis. Don't jump to "sky is blue" and "1+1=2" without getting a complicated reason from me on this...it's not worth going there to that degree because we're talking about things far "less" evident.

SO I've only received information from this thread that I knew. It releases chemicals of some kind into the environment. And that it's common sense to not do it. And that those chemicals directly ingested (by some means) would be bad.

BUT this thread is valuable anyway--->it supplied ONE major fact: No one so far can supply something that explains why with measurement and any kind of impact analysis, etc. It's what I hoping would not be the case.

I wanted to see a real study, not mere statements.

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